What's the deal with the BC Green Party?
Anyone else find it interesting that the BC Greens in 2013 managed to continue their province-wide vote loosing habit, while making huge breakthroughs in Greater Vancouver? Despite claims that the Greens lost the election for the NDP and are a growing threat to that party, the Greens have actually done best in Greater Vic ridings that have traditionally supported the Liberals.
The NDP only won a single general election (1991) in Weaver's new riding of Oak Bay-Gordon Head since 1979. The NDP won Saanich North and the Islands for the first time (riding created in 1991, but it predecessor, Saanich and the Islands, created in 1969, never elected a New Democrat). Greens saw huge increases in support in these and other Greater Victoria ridings in 2013, a feat not repeated elsewhere in the province.
In the ridings where they did make gains, they came in also equal amounts from the NDP and Liberals. Given they have taken support away from both parties and have only stolen a seat from the Liberals is the popular contention that they are a threat to the NDP based in fact? Also, what is unique about Victoria that has made it a new region of Green support while the party declines elsewhere in BC?
I can't speak to BC voters themselves, as I don't live in BC or really know anyone there, but I think it's a pretty big misconception globally that Green parties are "left" parties, a misconception I think that's born mostly from decades of right wing propaganda that glues any concern for the environment with "leftism", along with a refusal to objectively observe the trajectory Green parties globally have slanted towards. Green parties globally tend to gravitate towards a space similar to where the (national) Liberals inhabit. For example, the Germen Greens have been described by one of it's very founders as "Neoliberals on bikes", and Elizabeth May has apparently went through great efforts to distance herself from any "Left" labeling. There's exceptions to this rule, and this tends to be in areas/countries where there is no established "Left" part with any electoral success (Australia, and to a lesser extent England. In fact Carolina Lucas, who ended up winning a seat in Parliament, advertised the English Greens as the only "truly Left wing" party to run in 2010. Not technically true, but her party has grown (albeit at a snailspace) since then) That whole upper middle class white collar worker (too educated to vote Conservative, too rich to vote NDP) demograph. I know the Liberals in BC are the "Free market/whatever right wing" coalition, and are more vocally to the right than the national Liberals are, but I'd suspect there's at least a decent amount of "centrist" middle class voters who bite their tongues and vote BC Liberal because they just can't stand to vote for that "Working class rube" party called the BC NDP will become pretty interested in the Greens as the next few elections come by.
The centrist Greens in Canada, Germany and Columbia are the exception to the rule. Green Parties elsewhere are overwhelmingly left-wing (United States, Italy, Spain, Netherlands, Australia, New Zealand, Iceland, etc.). Many Green Parties are called Green-Left or Green-Socialist. The Greens in Canada were left of the NDP under previously leaders like Joan Russow (now an NDPer), that was until some former Conservative named Jim Harris took over the party. Trying to perpetuate the myth that the Green Parties of the world are primarily right-wing is false. Instead of engaging in fear-based propaganda, let us encourage our friends in the Green Party to fight to make sure the Green Party is a left-wing party, as we will eventually move towards a proportional system and could use an alternative left-wing party option for voters that we could work with (esp. if we ever want to create a shift away from the common Liberal-NDP switch voters). Not that I would ever consider voting Liberal, but many left-wing family members flip between voting for the two parties as they have an imagine of the Liberals as centre-left (caring about the poor, social programs, etc.). I'd rather a left-wing Green Party as an alternative over the Liberals.
I never said the Greens were a right wing party, I said they were more of a liberal "centrist" party, which have some important, if subtle differences. I think this alignment makes it easier for Liberal voters to digest the Greens than say the NDP. I also pointed out there's exceptions, like Australia, or the US, where they lack a well organized left wing party. In areas like Canada, Netherlands, Germany, and so forth, they tend to be more of a liberalish than left wing. I agree however, the Greens would make a much better replacement for the Liberal voters than the Liberal party itself, even if it's just for the astonishing amount of curroption the Liberal Party has, federally at least.
I'm not sure a comparison to Green named parties in other countries can really apply to whatever the Green in Canada is intended to be. Like the Reform party or other such parties, they end up being created as alternatives for those who want to vote, but the top 3 are not who they want to vote for (nor would the Reform party or whatever it calls itself today).
I think when it became clear they actually had a shot to win a seat, any seat, it became real to them, and they might downplay their obvious lefty leanings.
People on Vancouver Island for example are incensed about ferry fees rising costs, and a lack of concern by any federal party for anything west of Ontario. If my dad is any sort of example, that is. HATE Conservatives, loathe Liberals, disgusted with the obvious (to us) bias of the Ottawa based government's inability to see past Ontario, and the noisy Quebec, and to hell with the rest of the country. :)
If this group is disenchanted with the Liberals, being unlikely Conservative voters, and rabid enemies of the NDP, it really left them with only one other party that was focused on the same kinds of things Islanders are focused on: the environment, BC ferries, highways, etc. But first and foremost, that they were based, raised, or located in BC, and particularly the west coast, so understood what is important to those people.
I think alot of people want to vote green but they do not want to 'waste' or fracture their vote, but as time has progressed, they just have done it anyway. Once G got that foot in the door, you'll proably see it expand.
Why are these people "rabid enemies of the NDP"? What did the NDP ever do to them?
Australia doesn't have an organized left? Sure the Labor Party has done some right-wing things (deregulation, privatization) but there is a left-wing faction in the party. The recent Gillard government did some lefty-progressive things (national disability insurance, mining profits supertax, carbon tax). I don't think the ALP is all that different from the NDP. To suggest there is no room on the left wing in Canada but there is in Australia is a very weak argument, I think. The Australia Greens choose to be left and the Canadian Green Party chooses to be right and the Australian party has been more successful.
The comments on this thread confirms that the Greens tend to be what you want them to be and so you cannot define what they stand for. That sounds Liberal to me.
I am a BC Green Party member and I live in BC. I think the comments that Green parties in Canada tend to be more 'centrist' than in other nations is spot-on. Having said that, the scale of 'left' to 'right' in Canada is completely different than it is in the USA, so it's not an entirely fair comparison (ex., the Green party there is considered quite 'radical' for upholding beliefs that are mainstream NDP policies here). Just by browsing Andrew Weaver's site you can see he is undoubtedly a 'progressive' voice for the region, but he definitely focused on a 'balanced' and 'inclusive' approach to this; most of his focus is on changing social policies that wouldn't necessarily impact the economy, for example. Weaver is working with Carole James on anti-poverty policy which would definitely put him closer to the 'NDP camp' but he has also voted w/ the Liberals in the past. I don't think there's any false pretenses about this; the Greens have one of the most transparent and thorough policy frameworks of any party (especially at the federal level).
So, do they compete with Liberals or NDP? Of course it depends, but I would say generally their strength is in absorbing votes from those parties, plus the conservatives. People who are frustrated by their 'traditional' parties' lack of environmental focus are finally beginning to realize that the Greens are a viable option.
Some more food for thought: Elizabeth May took her seat from a Conservative cabinet minister, and won by a significant margin. That wasn't done soley by 'combinging' or 'aligning' the NDP and liberal votes; I volunteered on that campaign and the data clearly signified that many May voters were past Conservatives. In the recent Victoria by-election (also at the federal level), there was a fairly bitter rivalry between the Green's Galloway (who eventually placed 2nd) and the NDP's Murray Rankin. The NDP consistently pitted the Greens as their direct competitor for 'splitting the vote', but in fact the Greens mostly just took votes from the Liberals, who finished a distant 3rd.
I am a BC Green Party member and I live in Victoria. I think the comments that Green parties in Canada tend to be more 'centrist' than in other nations is spot-on. Having said that, the scale of 'left' to 'right' in Canada is completely different than it is in the USA, so it's not an entirely fair comparison (ex., the Green party there is considered quite 'radical' for upholding beliefs that are mainstream NDP policies here). Just by browsing Andrew Weaver's site you can see he is undoubtedly a 'progressive' voice for the region, but he definitely focused on a 'balanced' and 'inclusive' approach to this; most of his focus is on changing social policies that wouldn't necessarily impact the economy, for example. Weaver is working with Carole James on anti-poverty policy which would definitely put him closer to the 'NDP camp' but he has also voted w/ the Liberals in the past. I don't think there's any false pretenses about this; the Greens have one of the most transparent and thorough policy frameworks of any party (especially at the federal level).
So, do they compete with Liberals or NDP? Of course it depends, but I would say generally their strength is in absorbing votes from those parties, plus the conservatives. People who are frustrated by their 'traditional' parties' lack of environmental focus are finally beginning to realize that the Greens are a viable option.
Some more food for thought: Elizabeth May took her seat from a Conservative cabinet minister, and won by a significant margin. That wasn't done soley by 'combinging' or 'aligning' the NDP and liberal votes; I volunteered on that campaign and the data clearly signified that many May voters were past Conservatives. In the recent Victoria by-election (also at the federal level), there was a fairly bitter rivalry between the Green's Galloway (who eventually placed 2nd) and the NDP's Murray Rankin. The NDP consistently pitted the Greens as their direct competitor for 'splitting the vote', but in fact the Greens mostly just took votes from the Liberals, who finished a distant 3rd.
this is what i would mean by the voters being anti-NDP. They weren't disillusioned NDPers, they were disillusioned voters who would rather cut off their right hand than cast a vote for the NDP. Even if there was a good chance that meant leaving the party they were disenchanted with in place, or even splitting the votes so that the NDP took the seat. I guess they figured that the best case scenario was to vote Green and increase the chance of neither of the top 3 getting in?
In regards to the question of the Green threat, it is a useful exercise to look at how Dix's Kinder Morgan gambit failed to pay off. He wanted to get out in front of environmentalists who were going to criticize the uncertainty of BCNDP policy, in order to keep votes from peeling off to Greens. Now where did the NDP gain seats? Two Vancouver ridings, one in Burnaby and one on the Island. Everywhere else they lost seats or stayed flat - in the places where competing with the Greens is not in the least big valuable. They charged in for battle and forgot about the war.
Ontario Conservative Senator Nancy Ruth donated $5000 to the BC Green Party last year.
Now I find this very odd as to why this would happen. Perhaps she is old friends with Lizzie back in her Con days.
Precisely.
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