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Rachel Dolezal

Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

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Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

Just sayin'.


Pondering
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Joined: Jun 14 2013

It's a difficult topic. What she did was wrong. She seems like a good person, well-intentioned. Apparently she is well respected for the work she has done. Black people or African Americans, whichever you prefer, are divided. Some seem less condemning than a lot of white people who insist she did it for privilege or is mentally ill.

Others are making comparisons to Jenner while others insist it isn't the same thing.

I think it's a fascinating discussion but I am not sure there is any way to have it without accusations of racism and/or transphobia.


jas
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Joined: Jun 6 2005

Unionist wrote:

Just sayin'.

Just sayin' what?


Misfit
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Joined: Jun 27 2014
What kind of parents go to the media simply to humiliate their daughter on an international scale and thoroughly ruin her career and reputation? If I had parents like that I'd wish I was from an entirely different race than them. If she was estranged from them for years, we now no longer have to wonder why.

Catchfire
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Rachel Dolezal Definitely Nailed The Hair, I'll Give Her That

When Rachel Dolezal committed, she really committed. Here is Rachel with very long faux dreadlocks. That’s how you know she was in this for real. This woman went out and got arguably the blackest hairstyle possible and then multiplied it by five. She is swimming in locs.

Rachel Dolezal Definitely Nailed The Hair, I'll Give Her That

Look, I can be mad at Rachel Dolezal about a lot of things, but I can’t be mad about her hair game. Rachel, girl, YOU DID THAT.

this is about where I'm at


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

Rachel Dolezal's definition of 'transracial' isn't just wrong, it's destructive

Quote:

To deny ethnic and cultural differences – to say not only “I don’t see race” but that race is a choose-your-own adventure – is to erase the identities of those who cannot choose. Dolezal’s actions are the acceptance of a hierarchy of identities that are more deserving of merit, love, the visible acknowledgment of pain, validity, the pursuit of happiness and access to wealth and opportunity. The story of America that we like to repeat is that everyone is equal, that every individual has the opportunity to manifest the good life – although our history and cultural idiosyncrasies do not align consistently with that notion. To say: “I am colorblind”, is an attempt to inoculate oneself from accountability for individual behavior that reinforces systemic inequalities and divides.


Misfit
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Joined: Jun 27 2014
She resigned at the NAACP, she lost her part time teaching position, and her name has been publicized internationally. Where does she go to hide from this humiliation? And how does this destroy her chances of future employment elsewhere? How can parents do something like this to their own child?

jas
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Joined: Jun 6 2005

As far as the insistence that one can't identify as, or "be" legitimately black (whereas one can identify legitimately as, or "be" a different gender) I have not seen any convincing arguments.

Jezebel has a few articles, one of which states:

It is a True Detective-esque mockery of being black in America. Dolezal is not Janet Mock or Laverne Cox. This is not an issue of being assigned the wrong sex at birth.

Dolezal’s identity is a racial construction of her own making in a place where there aren’t a ton of black people to call her out. It must be noted that she didn’t claim to be black while she no doubt underwent the blackest experience of her life at Howard University as a Fine Arts grad student. Nor did she present herself as black while she was married to a black man, which no doubt came with a black family and friends, until 2004.

and

In my opinion, ethnicity isn’t something one can really move in and out of physically or mentally. You can fudge how people may see you with money, social status or class (however that’s viewed in the society you live in), changing your hair, speaking a different language or altering your voice—but you’re still of born of your parents’ racial makeup, and Rachel Dolezal’s is Czech, Swedish, and German.

1) the NAACP is not a place where a "ton of black people" could call her out?

2) how is this argument any different from those skeptical of trans identities?


Timebandit
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Joined: Sep 25 2001

Why are any of you defending her?  Good intentions?  Taking a scholarship intended for a black student isn't well-intentioned.  Blame the parents?  Whaaaa?  I don't care how shitty your family is, you don't build a career on a web of lies as intricate as this. 

Dolezal couldn't have done this semi-intentionally.  It's just too much effort.


Unionist
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Misfit wrote:
She resigned at the NAACP, she lost her part time teaching position, and her name has been publicized internationally. Where does she go to hide from this humiliation? And how does this destroy her chances of future employment elsewhere? How can parents do something like this to their own child?

I wondered all that too. I still do, even as the story gets more bizarre by the minute:

Rachel Dolezal’s brother, author Joshua Dolezal, faces trial for alleged sexual abuse of a black child

 


jas
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Timebandit wrote:

Dolezal couldn't have done this semi-intentionally.  It's just too much effort.

What was her motivation? To cash in on all that black privilege?


6079_Smith_W
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jas wrote:

2) how is this argument any different from those skeptical of trans identities?

Very good question, sort of. That is to say, I think it is only being brought up as a foil. Not to drag this off-topic, but though it might be easy to draw a comparison in theory, on a practical level there is a big difference.


Timebandit
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Joined: Sep 25 2001

I'm not guessing at her motivation - could be any number of things.  But blaming it on her parents?  They made her apply for a scholarship for POC?  How do you come to that conclusion? 

There was a tweet that said something to the effect of being at the bottom of one hierarchy and choosing to be at the top of another...  I don't know if that's it, either.  Ultimately, only Dolezal knows, and she's not saying.


Timebandit
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Misfit wrote:
She resigned at the NAACP, she lost her part time teaching position, and her name has been publicized internationally. Where does she go to hide from this humiliation? And how does this destroy her chances of future employment elsewhere? How can parents do something like this to their own child?

Maybe it was in response to some of the allegations she makes here:

http://easterneronline.com/35006/eagle-life/a-life-to-be-heard/#sthash.e...

 


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

Here's what the NAACP said on June 12:

Quote:
For 106 years, the National  Association for the Advancement of Colored People has held a long and proud tradition of receiving support from people of all faiths, races, colors and creeds. NAACP Spokane Washington Branch President Rachel Dolezal is enduring a legal issue with her family, and we respect her privacy in this matter. One’s racial identity is not a qualifying criteria or disqualifying standard for NAACP leadership.  The NAACP Alaska-Oregon-Washington State Conference stands behind Ms. Dolezal’s advocacy record.

And after she resigned on June 15:

Quote:

From Cornell William Brooks, NAACP President & CEO:

"The NAACP is not concerned with the racial identity of our leadership but the institutional integrity of our advocacy. Our focus must be on issues not individuals. Ms. Rachel Dolezal has decided to resign to ensure that the Spokane branch remains focused on fighting for civil and human rights. This resignation today comes amidst the real work of the NAACP and the real challenges to our democracy.

 


Mr. Magoo
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Joined: Dec 13 2002

Quote:
Others are making comparisons to Jenner while others insist it isn't the same thing.

There's at least *some* biological evidence that we were all, at one point in our embryonic development, female -- then we either become male or we remain female.  So it's not entirely unreasonable to think that perhaps in that process, mistakes happen.

There's no similar evidence that we all start off Asian and then become caucasian (or not) or that we all start as African-American and then become caucasian (or not).


jas
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Joined: Jun 6 2005

I'm not sure that our common embryonic origins are an argument used in trans advocacy, but for that matter, our genes also code for physiological characteristics at some embryonic point, so you could argue that mistakes with brain mapping can happen there, too.


Left Turn
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Talib Kweli on Rachel Dolezal: 'You're Not an Ally, You're an Enemy'

Quote:
I've known white people who have said to me verbatim, "I feel black on the inside." There's nothing wrong with being honest about that. But she took it to the next level. When you lie; when you're saying your adopted brother is your son; when you're suing Howard one year for saying you're too white, then saying people hung nooses at your door the next year – that's crossing the line. You're not a friend or an ally to the movement. You're an enemy. Maybe you're not as dangerous an enemy as killer cops, but you're not down with us at all.


Left Turn
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Slumberjack
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Joined: Aug 8 2005

For my money, white rap is in the same category.


lagatta
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Joined: Apr 17 2002

I especially agree with the last one. This whole story  - both her, her publicly shaming parents and now, her alleged child-abusive brother, are fodder for a typical "reality show". To play down the real issues of racism, such as economic and housing discrimination, and police/guard violence.

Race is a complex issue en Murka (and many other places) due to the "one-drop" rule. I have a Jamaican friend who has blonde, but kinky hair, and skin about the colour Rachel tinted or tanned hers to. Many very light-skinned racially mixed people in South Africa got classified as "coloured" and the same happened in the South of the USA.


Mr. Magoo
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Quote:
What was her motivation? To cash in on all that black privilege?

This is purely my guess, but perhaps to gain a more signficant sense of identity.  To belong to a group that seems more valid than "Heinz57 white person of mixed white heritage".


Pondering
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Joined: Jun 14 2013

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Others are making comparisons to Jenner while others insist it isn't the same thing.

There's at least *some* biological evidence that we were all, at one point in our embryonic development, female -- then we either become male or we remain female.  So it's not entirely unreasonable to think that perhaps in that process, mistakes happen.

There's no similar evidence that we all start off Asian and then become caucasian (or not) or that we all start as African-American and then become caucasian (or not).

But the biological differences between male and female are much greater than biological differences between people of various colours.

The defence for allowing people to transition between male and female is based purely on the individual being convinced that they are the opposite sex to which they were born so wanting to live their life as someone of that sex would. That is achieved through various medical treatments allowing them to appear as they were born of the opposite sex, not because they are the opposite sex, but because they personally identity as the opposite sex.

Identifying as a person of a different colour is far less dramatic and transitioning doesn't require any medical treatment. Her ability to publically identity as black without any appearence problems just goes to show how minor the differences really are.

Having been raised with black siblings, married a black man and raised black children she was by proxy subjected to racism. To racists fraternizing with blacks is just as bad or worse than actually being black.

She has certainly "lived black" more than Jenner has lived as a woman. Jenner lived as a man with full male privilege including competing as a male athelete and marrying twice and having children with both wives, and she says she is not a lesbian. If Jenner is sexually attracted to women, but not a lesbian, that would result in being a straight effeminate male. I am not convinced that Jenner fits the description of a trans woman.

Apparently in her article in Vanity Fair she says that when she and Chris married that Chris was nice to her but that when Chris didn't need her anymore (because of the success of her reality show) Chris wasn't as nice to her anymore and that is why their marriage failed.

I can see taking a long time to come out, a lifetime even, but "Bruce" had gender issues throughout life that are more likely to have impacted the marriages. Chris is heterosexual and thought she was married to a man. Blaming Chris for not being "nice" enough after having her own money speaks volumes.

Now, instead of being Bruce, a has-been man that cross-dresses, we now have Caitlyn, a beautiful woman, courageous and brave, with her very own reality TV show in competition with the Kardashians. Caitlyn may well believe that she is a woman but I'm not convinced. I definitely don't think she is being brave by turning her transition into a TV reality show. I think she loves it.

Dolezal has lived more of a black life than Jenner has a woman's life. Yes she has profited professionally by it but I don't believe that was her motivation for doing it. I believe she does identity with the black community to the extent that she became black at least in her own mind and lived outwardly as a black person and was treated as one.

Jenner is being celebrated, and Dolezal has been professionally destroyed, most likely economically devastated, and is facing possible criminal charges.

Doesn't seem fair.

P.S. http://www.adversity.net/FRAMES/Editorials/54_Paler_Shade_of_Black.htm

   But if we are all one race, which race are we? One answer is the cute one that we are the "human race". But buckle your seat belts folks, because the genetic answer is that we are all really black. And white people are pale adaptations of black people that evolved during the past 140,000 years.

Race is a human construct. Sex isn't. Gender is.

 


6079_Smith_W
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Joined: Jun 10 2010

Slumberjack wrote:

For my money, white rap is in the same category.

Depends. And that's not saying I don't have the same gut feeling about those who adopt lingo and accent (though we don't say the same about Native or other rap).

But if we are going to say that, we'd have to extend it to jazz, blues and rock and roll as well. Pretending to be another race is one thing (and of course it is different for some who feel they have to pass as white). But if race is complicated - and it is - art is even moreso.

 


6079_Smith_W
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Joined: Jun 10 2010

Pondering

Not everyone is celebrating Jenner. And many who celebrate her coming out criticize her politics, and some of the things she has done, and point out both her privilege, and her conforming to traditional style.

That said, she hasn't tried to pass someone else off as her father, pressured others to keep secrets, lied about her heritage and worked her way into an advocacy group on false pretenses.

Again, there are plenty of differences between these two situations.

 


jas
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Joined: Jun 6 2005

Mr. Magoo wrote:

This is purely my guess, but perhaps to gain a more signficant sense of identity.  To belong to a group that seems more valid than "Heinz57 white person of mixed white heritage".

Or it could be fetishism.


Misfit
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Joined: Jun 27 2014
I'm white so I don't think it's up to me to say whether it's appropriate or not. I'm more interested in hearing responses from black people themselves and their reasons for being angry and upset or not. It could be that she identifies with being black because her parents adopted black children who would then be her siblings. These siblings likely had a strong role in helping to shape her identity. She married a black man, and has a black son. She has white parents she obviously wants nothing to do with. On the surface alone, I can see why she would identify so closely with being black. My dad's oldest sister was born to Norwegian parents and she was fluent in Norwegian, but she insisted she was Scottish. My grandparents could only shake their heads and say, "Uff-da!?!"

Sineed
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Joined: Dec 4 2005

Dolezal is a higly mendacious person who not only made 8 complaints of hate crimes and said a random black guy was her dad, but also told her brothers not to "out" her.

And then there's the lawsuit against Howard University, an African-American college:

Quote:

Before Rachel Dolezal started passing as a black woman, she reportedly once sued her alma mater, HBCU Howard University, accusing it of discriminating against her because she was white, the Smoking Gun has uncovered

According to the report, Dolezal filed the lawsuit for discrimination in 2002, the same year she graduated with a Master of Fine Arts degree, saying that the university denied her teaching posts and a scholarship because she was a white woman, the site reports. Dolezal, who then went by the name Rachel Moore, named the university and professor Alfred Smith, then the chairman of Howard’s art department, as defendants in the lawsuit that was filed in Washington, D.C., Superior Court.

http://www.theroot.com/articles/news/2015/06/rachel_dolezal_sued_howard_...

When a person of the dominant class assumes the identity of the oppressed class, that's appropriation. How can any of you defend that?

Pondering I enjoyed reading your post. I agree that race and gender are both social constructs and would add that any analysis has to take into account imbalances of power and privilege, ie, white privilege, and male privilege. Identity politics that doesn't take into account systemic oppression is nothing more than a fashion show (Rachel in her fake dreads, Bruce in his bustier) that serves to erase the lived experiences of genuinely oppressed people (African-Americans, women).


takeitslowly
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Joined: May 31 2009

Here are some comments that I agree with.

 

"Your race is a part of your heritage. Transgender is not a part of heritage. Your race is passed to you. If your ancestors and parents are black, you are black. Transgender is a feeling that aches inside you and longs to come out. You can pretend to be another race, but transgender is not pretending."

She's a liar and a thief.  She's a hypocritical wretch and the ultimate example of White privilege and cultural appropriation. She isn't black because she "feels black". I feel rich, so let me go rob a bank and do a little identity theft on the side all. She had the wherewithal to tell her brother not to sell her out. She knew exactly what the F she was doing. Bamboozle and conquer. If her motives weren't completely self-serving, she  would have become a white civil rights activist. End of."

 

Transracial is actually a real word. It refers to adoptive children of a differencet race than their parents.Heres a nice video from a black trans woman who explained why its insulting to conflate this issue with being transgender

http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/06/rachel-dolezal-not-transracial/

 

 

 

"

 


Mr. Magoo
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Joined: Dec 13 2002

Quote:
My dad's oldest sister was born to Norwegian parents and she was fluent in Norwegian, but she insisted she was Scottish. My grandparents could only shake their heads and say, "Uff-da!?!"

Shall we call this "tartan-face"?

You heard it here first.

In high school I had a friend who so identified with the Beatles, and in particular Paul McCartney, that he began to adopt a Liverpudlian accent.  If wishes were fishes...


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