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NDP confronts Liberals on Dept of Justice denying 3000 residential school survivors justice due to a technicality
February 20, 2016 - 7:52pm
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CBC article on it:
Indigenous affairs minister to look into rejected residential school cases
Here are the House of Commons debates on the matter. First Saganash, then Angus, ask the Minister of Justice, Wilson-Raybould, about the claim rejection by the Justice Ministry, who declines to answer, with Bennett stepping in instead (Feb 3, 2016):
House of Commons Debate:
On Feb 4, 2016, Mulcair once again follows up with Wilson-Raybould, who does answer this time:
http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=E&Mode...
This is an important issue. I don't understand why the NDP is pushing the Justice Dept. on it. Apparently legally the victims are not entitled to the funds. Morally they are entitled.
The Justice Department doesn't have any decision-making power on this. The department of Indigenous and Northern Affairs is the client that the Justice Department works for in this particular case. The justice department gives advice to the department of Indigenous and Northern Affairs. The department of Indigenous and Northern Affairs is now going to look into the issue. So, a week from now the NDP should ask if the minister has begun the process and how much time she foresees it taking before a decision is made.
So you are saying the Liberal government has already started passing the buck between Ministries instead of dealing with the actual problem. If the NDP wants do know what the government is doing it should just wait until someone gets around to dealing with an issue that has been festering since before the election. Your apologies for the Liberals are becoming more nauseating every day.
By the way this story is already three weeks old just from when it was raised in the House let alone when they were denied. I guess its not a high priority for anyone in the government.
Just the opposite. Didn't you read the post? I didn't bring the article here. I'm just responding.
Time to ask for an update. I hope the NDP does.
It's a bit of a red herring which department is to blame for this travesty. The Liberal government is to blame. Good for the NDP pointing it out and getting a commitment from the government to redress this issue.
It isn't a red herring. She said her ministry is the one responsible and that she intends to look into it. This is left-over from the Conservatives. They were in power for 10 years and set a lot in motion. I agree it's important not to drop this file. A month should be amble time to come up with some sort of answer.
There is also the matter of restitution for some victims who were tortured overseas and left out of restitution on a technicality.
Is there a C-51 thread because I think movement on that is more urgent. Before they were elected the Liberals had documents specifying changes they would make in legal language.
I hope the NDP doesn't lose sight of this and asks again in a few weeks.
It was Justice Department lawyers who made the argument of the administrave split, as mentioned in the CBC article (and as mentioned by Angus, Saganesh, and Mulcair) and it's the Justice Department that should back off and apologize now. Angus is following up. There's further detail here: http://www.residentialschool.ca/committee-rejects-call-to-investigate-di...
From the article you linked to:
That isn't following up. Bennett already told him it is her responsibility.
The courts already determined that they are not entitled to restitution because that is the direction the Conservatives took. Now a political avenue is the last resort. Bennett already said it is her responsibility. Following up would be asking her what steps she has taken.
Anyway, now that the government is aware of this unjust decision, hopefully they will rectify it in short order and give these residential school survivors the justice they deserve.
ETA: It was not the courts that made this decision. It was the IAP.
link
And the decision is asinine and should be fixed ASAP. The government is aware and should fix it now without delay.
And it was the lawyers from the Ministry of Justice who made this argument before the IAP rather than lawyers from the Ministry of Indigenous and Northern Affairs. In essence the Ministry of Justice turned what was supposed to be a non-adversarial out-of-court process into a court-like adversarial proceeding. Totally wrong. So the Ministry of Justice should apologize now. However, if the Ministry of Indigenous and Northern Affairs wishes to take responsibility and apologize, then fine. But rather than dithering, they (the government) should move now and do the right thing.
There are updates on this case.
Halt ordered to denying residential-school abuse claims on technicality
Which means Bennett's order was heard, at least, and the IAP acted on its own initiative to suspend denials.
But there's more since then.
Committee rejects call to investigate discarded residential-school compensation claims
Legal processes are one thing, but I think Angus is right to focus on the issue of "who speaks for the survivors." In this process, at the moment, no one. We can go back to a quote from the first article I linked:
Let's remember that the government is not acting out of generosity. It is not supposed to control the process. It has been ordered by the courts to take xertain actions, including compensating all survisors. It's managed to wriggle out on a technicality of paying thousands compensation - and it thus denies them not only reparations, but more importantly, it denies them the dignity of having their suffering acknowledged. The two sides amde an agreement. Ottawa broke it. This needs to end.
I believe Carolyn Bennett and Judy Wilson-Raybould (who was herself on the AFN executive) would like to do the right thing. Bennett did not know about this, it seems, and ordered a review. It's been a month. This is the only IAF piece of unfinished business. The Justice department's lawyers ahve been arguing a denislaist position and are clearly in the wrong. They were acting on orders from Ottawa in doing so. So, Ottawa has to issue different orders. It's been a month. Time to issue those orders, or explain the delay. Time, also, for the IAF oversight committee to do its job and start acting like a neutral party charged with carrying out a settlement, not a partisan of one side.
Thanks for the updates swallow.
What really pisses me off even more than this is their giving themselves a raise while begrudging a pittance pay out in the scheme of things.
Halt ordered to denying residential-school abuse claims on technicality
Canada requested that the IAP suspend denials. Surely that must have come through government on Bennett's orders.
Exactly, that is why the claims are being denied.
They did issue different orders. They ordered a review and they ordered the IAP to hold the claims rather than denying them until after the review.
The ones being refused didn't go to government administered schools. Harper lawyers argued that meant they were not owed compensation by the government and the court agreed that legally they are not entitled to compensation. Presumably it would the the Church or province that would legally be liable for damages.
Bennett seems to have acted quickly. When the review is done Bennett will get a report so she will have the official information to take a decision.
It is refreshing that Canada made the request, not "the Trudeau government". Trudeau is trying to dial back the heavy partisanship. The NDP would do well to cooperate for awhile. The politicking is not benefiting them it's making them seem partisan and unwilling to work with the Liberals. If the NDP is aiming to get the Liberals another majority in 2019 they are on the right track.
They are not giving themselves a raise. The amount being paid to set up and run offices was raised. The MPs are not and should not be expected to take that out of their own salaries.
like they would've anyway. lol
look over here not there.......
The latest exchange in the House on February 26, 2016:
So, the issue is still a work in progress. Good to see the NDP continuing to pressure the government to do the right thing.
Too bad that isn't what the NDP is doing. Instead they are trying to confuse Canadians to advance the NDP. It won't work. The IAP doesn't have a mandate to "investigate" and there is nothing to "investigate". The Liberals are proceeding with a review and have halted the refusals pending the findings of the review. It could take months not weeks before the review is turned in, examined, and a decision taken. If the NDP thinks these decisions should be taken on the fly in the house without any verification then they aren't qualified to run a government.
It was the oversight committee of the IAP that was asked by Angus to investigate, and this was declined by that committee. A reasonable question on behalf of Angus, I feel. The NDP (Angus, Saganash, et al) is doing what it should, which is looking out for the interests of constituents who need assistance. I'm not sure why you condemn the NDP for that. This question was reasonable: "Will the Minister of Justice now direct her officials to abandon their legal loopholes and instead start working to bring justice to these victims?" The questioner feels the loopholes were insufficient reason to deny compensation, which was the basis of the whole issue right from the start. What's unreasonable about expressing that? Do you feel the NDP should not have raised this issue?
I really don't give a shit about the partisanm bickering around the issue, so I'll ignore all the arguments about Liberals vs NDP.
But there is a clear moral commitment on Ottawa's part to provide reparations to all residential school survivors. Phil Fontaine's quote implies that these were government-mandated schools, even if they were in part church-managed. The government has a moral obligation to repair damage to all survivors of the agreed-upon schools, and a moral responsibility for the entire residential schools system.
As Carolyn Bennett would no doubt agree, the pointblank denials of these claims must end. Defences of the denials are, well, problematic at best. Bennett has not defended the denials. You seem to be doing so, if I read correctly (they "didn't go to government administered schools" and someone else is liable). I hope I read you wrong?
No I am not defending the decision to deny just saying it is most likely in keeping with the Supreme Court decision from a legal perspective. For that reason there is no need for an investigation. We know what happened. The Conservative government fought it in court and when they lost they decided to do only what was required by law.
Since it was brought to the attention of Bennett she instituted a review and put a halt to the rejections. I consider that to be prompt action for a government. I assume it will take months for the review to be done and the report prepared so the government can respond by creating different parameters for restitution.
That doesn't mean we can now ignore the situation forever. It would have been reasonable for the NDP, or anyone else, to request an update. That update would have been "we are conducting a review and we have halted the denials". Another reasonable question would be "how long do you expect the review to take?"
I am offended that the NDP is playing politics on the file. It's a serious issue not a game. I want answers not dramatics.
i'm disappointed the government of Canada is again following the previous government's trend of marginalizing Aboriginal voice's, thoughts, culture, dignity.
i'm disappointed the government of Canada feels it's more important they have more money for their constituency office operations and staffing rather than reparations towards Aboriginals across Canada.
i am offended the government of Canada in a bid to get elected stated Aboriginals would be equal partners in Canada, are trying to wiggle from this on a technicality made by government law.
What's the difference between an "investigation" and a "review"?
Why should it take months to simply do the right thing and treat all survivors with justice? Why put different parameters on some survicors and not on others? What do you disagree with in Phil Fontaine's statement?
The difference between a review and an investigation is that an investigation implies someone did something wrong and should be fired or arrested. A review gathers the facts without judgement and presents the information.
It takes months because that is how government works and should work. I wouldn't want a government that hands out millions of dollars without doing due diligence. It would be reckless. I agree that it is urgent but neither yes nor no should be decided flippantly and they have a lot of balls in the air. Just on aboriginal affairs they have the Truth and Reconcilliation recommendations and the Inquiry into missing and murdered indigenous women+ and the drinking water issue is also urgent. This was brought to their attention by the NDP. I appreciate the NDP raising the issue. Those people deserve restitution and deserve it ASAP. Nothing can make up for what they have suffered. The harm done went far beyond the ones who suffered directly, the parents and children who were separated, it destroyed entire communities for generations. In my opinon Canada is committing crimes against humanity. It's urgent that indigenous children get at least as much per head for education and more to begin to make up for the infrastructure deficit on reserves, not only schools but in the lack of safe homes. My daughter spend some time in Moosonee looking after babies and preschoolers in care, ie, a group home, and conditions were dreadful.
So yes, it was a good thing that the NDP brought this issue up in the house. It alerted the government. It established that it is Bennett's responsibility to look into it. Once Bennett took responsibility for the file she became the person to question about progress. That could be done in the house during Question Period or as a written query to the Minister for an update or timetable. Writing the IAP was just weird after already establishing that it is Bennett's responsibility. The NDP is playing partisan games when they should be the voice of Canadians genuinely holding the government to account. We are all screwed if CETA goes through especially as it means TPP will be harder to fight. C 51 still hasn't been addressed. I don't expect the Liberals to have everything done yesterday. Obviously it will take time for them to fully control the levers of government. I want the NDP to constructively hold the Liberals to account. Instead they are focusing on their own interests.
Oh brother. I think quizzical's post #22 said it best.
That's all that I see happening here.
deleted double post
Here's the decision that inspired the IAP to deny these thousands of claims, some of which had been on hold for as long as 2010: Fontaine v Canada (Attorney General), 2015 ABQB 225 (CanLII).
Here's what I think: Canada should stop fucking around and apologize now for the policy change in 2010. There's no need for any further delay.
From what I picked up from the Globe articles and the Hansard, this is my understanding of it (note, even if I haven't prefaced something with disclaimers like "I think", it is still my understanding rather than fact): As we all know, Canada forcibly took First Nations kids from their parents and put them in Indian Residential Schools (IRS) many years ago. Many of the kids suffered abuse and hardship in these schools. A lot of survivors filed a class action law suit against Canada. This was settled between the survivors (the complainants) and Canada (the defendant) with the following agreement between the parties: the Indian Residential Schools Settlement Agreement ("Settlement Agreement"). The Settlement Agreement had a list of included schools within it. The survivors would have their stories heard and assessed at the Independent Assessment Process ("IAP"), beginning I think in 2006. The IAP is described thus,
Thus, the IAP is presented as an "out of court" process. And for years testimony happened there and "Common Experience Payment" ("CEP") was granted to the survivors. Then, suddenly in 2010 Canada changed its policy. It sent lawyers there to make arguments that Canada should not be liable for some of the institutions that survivors suffered abuses at, despite them being listed on the Settlement Agreement as an IRS. So cases involving these institutions were put on hold.
This was challenged in court by one of the claimants. The case is Fontaine v Canada (Attorney General), 2015 ABQB 225 (CanLII). The main question was whether the IAP adjudicators have the power "to determine when institutions recognized as an IRS under the IRSSA [Settlement Agreement] cease to operate as an IRS". Ultimately, yes they have that power. So, even places listed and recognized on the Settlement Agreement as an IRS can be de-listed. Bear in mind that survivors who signed the Settlement Agreement surrendered their right to make further claims on their experiences when they signed.
Anyway, the decision in this case, while in Canada's favour, was quite critical of Canada (see around paragraph 74 -- emphasis added):
My opinion is the policy change of Canada in 2010 (via the Ministry of Justice) is an absolutely travesty. This policy change that Canada enacted in 2010 is just wrong. And, as the court determined, is assailable in the realms of public opinion and the political arena. Canada's conduct is the problem. This can and must be fixed. Canada should do the right thing and apologize for this, drop the 2010 policy change, work to redress any harm that came from this policy change, and honour the Settlement Agreement as it was signed and understood initially.
you know i call bs on all of it. this the way i see it.
every person forced to be separated from their parents to attend an assimilation school of any type should have reparations paid, at minimum, even if they didn't want to tell their story for it to be made public.
individual nations should receive reparations for the attempted genocide and the destruction of their families and culture.
this is on top of land and resource claim rights.
Of course they should. I don't think anyone here is disputing that.
oh really? when you don't demand outright or speak this truth to the party you voted for then imv you are disputing Aboriginal rights.