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NDP turfed Stefan Jonasson for criticizing misogynistic Ultra-Orthodox Jewish sect
October 1, 2015 - 12:28pm
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This was discussed briefly in another thread, but it deserves its own.
This stupid move has earned no one's support that I have managed to find to date. Here's one article for those who don't know the story yet:
Stefan Jonasson: 'I really wish that my party would have stood with me'
Here's the January 2012 Facebook comment that got Rev. Jonasson dumped:
And (just for context) here is the incident that he was commenting on at the time:
8-year-old Israeli girl becomes face of clash between moderates, ultra-Orthodox Jews
Note that observant Orthodox Jews don't like the characterization of the Haredim as "ultra-Orthodox" as they don't consider the latter to be more Orthodox than them. Many also use the label "Jewish Taliban".
Oh. I guess we haven't talked it to death yet.
Sorry Unionist, but if you don't see the problem with comparing a group which doesn't stone and mutilate people and destroy ancient artifacts to one which does, some of us do see the unfairness.
I don't actually think he should have been let go, but the fact that he didn't even realize what he had done wrong, and continued to insist that he had a dedication to tolerance, certainly took him down a peg in my estimation.
Though I am less concerned about this than where some are taking it; I have already called people out on facebook for spinning this not as defense of Israel but as pandering to The Jews.
Not to mention the irony of this situation given how some in that group feel about Zionism.
This candidate spoke the truth, albeit a little crudely. A Liberal candidate on Vancouver Island had to resign because a few years ago she posted on line that she thought the official version of 9/11 was a lie.
This election is like no other in the intensity of the witch hunts by all parties against their opponents candidates. It appears they are all scouring the internet for any possible heresy against the MSM view of the world. The major parties vetting systems in light of those heresies appear to be systemically discriminating against people who dare to challenge that view.
What a sad, sad commentary on our "democratic" system.
Exactly. And as a Jew who grew up in an "Orthodox" family, I find the MSM's characterizations as misleading and offensive. As for the NDP, it is impossible to find any support for the exclusion of Jonasson, who is a Unitarian Universalist minister, a former president of the University of Winnipeg Alumni Association, a well- and widely-known progressive person, and as gentle and forgiving a soul as you might want to meet.
This has nothing to do with the Middle East. This is craven fear that anything that sounds like it's critical of "Jews" will evoke the wrath of Harper.
Even Gail Asper (!) wrote a letter to the (paywall-protected) Winnipeg Free Press supporting Jonasson:
I have to disagree with you on this one. In my opinion, any group which would spit on and yell at little girls on their way to school would probably be happy to stone and mutililate the objects of their disapproval as well, if they could get away with it. Fortunately for their neighbours, they are not in charge of the Israeli government, as the Taliban were in Afghanistan.
Except that "Taliban" is as much shorthand nowadays as "Nazi" and "the Klan".
There has been a lot of noise about what a great candidate this fellow is because he is a Unitarian. Fact is, his status as a Unitarian minister to me means he should know better than to smear people like this. Tolerance doesn't mean a damned thing if it doesn't mean having some consideration for people whose values you find challenging. Even if he had a point in criticizing them (and I think he does) calling them butchers and refering to their faith as "toxic" is crossing a line.
From yesterday's Winnipeg Free Press:
I have never voted Liberal in my life, but if I lived there I would.
Sorry, but the race is blown in that riding, except for keeping the Harperite out.
(and I am aware Steven Fletcher has bucked his own party on the issue of assisted suicide)
That's not what he said, but you already know that.
He did call their faith toxic, and he did say they were like the Taliban.
If I said you were like the Nazis do you think maybe I should specify that I was talking about your snappy attire?
As TB likes to say, this is kind of a silly buggers argument.
Jim Rondeau is a 3-term provincial NDP MLA and was a cabinet minister for 10 years.
From yesterday's news:
The NDP head office should apologize to Jonasson and all his supporters, and ask if he would kindly consider resuming his candidacy. There's nothing wrong with admitting a mistake.
Know what Unionist, at this point I'd still vote Liberal (and let me assure you, that actually is a big deal) because it is obviously a balls up.
Especially given his letter, I have no idea what actually happened in the back room, but I was not at all impressed. If I was to vote NDP, it would be despite him.
Thanks for that. I hadn't seen things that way. You've really opened my eyes. I think it was eighth exclamation mark that did it.
It really puts into perspective Jonasson's phoney pro-Liberal Facebook post from the day before yesterday:
Thanks again for helping me to see through this hypocrisy, and also Jim Rondeau's traitorous behaviour, and everything else.
Wow. Gail Asper. Good for her.
From J. Baglow (Dr. Dawg)'s rabble column:
The Orange Purge Continues
I hadn't realized till now that Johnstone had done a joint statement with B'nai Brith. She has a lot more learning to do than I realized.
Whatever, you drama queen.
At least someone has a bit of common sense:
Not too hard. No broken eggs or exploded fire extinguishers.
http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/kelly-mcparland-i-dont-believe...
@6079_Smith_W:
A Google search you might try:
Haredim attacks on women
Or is stoning, short of it actually causing death, really that big a distinction? Might I also mention the recent fatal stabbing at the Pride march?
Jonassan was talking about the poisonous influence of extremist religious sects... perhaps it would have been better if he had included some of the Dominionist Christian sects as well as mentioning Taliban and Haredi, but his point is bang on center even with this omission.
I disagree, bagkitty.
And that's not to say I approve of the abuses some do commit against people. But yes, it is a big distinction. And a false comparison.
And as with any abuse, religious, political, or otherwise, start using it as a blanket condemnation of the whole group and passing judgment on their faith and what you have is discrimination. Not everyone who holds that faith is tossing dirty diapers or making a show on airplanes.
If anyone should understand the distinction between abusive acts and a person's beliefs it should be someone who says he is from a religion that teaches tolerance and understanding.
Can we reel this back to one of the number of times I said I don't think this fellow should have been tossed? But I do think he crossed a line and should have at least recognized it and apologized.
Smith, you did read the part about the mob of extremists stoning (non-fatally) women attempting to pray at the Western Wall? As soon as members of a sect, especially when acting in concert with other sect members, use violence to attempt to enforce their beliefs on others I am quite willing to pull out a very broad paintbrush... The only thing that would stop me from wielding that paintbrush was for the leadership of that sect to not only condemn them, but expel/denouce/excommunicate (pick you term) them. NALT (Not All Like That) qualifications don't really cut it.
"Democratic?" Dare to challenge it?
Wash with bleach after
Wash with politicallly correct substance
I dont think he reads. Thanks bk
*sigh*
Yes, bagkitty. I read it. I was actually aware of it, and the fact that someone in their faith murdered someone at that Pride Parade before you stuck it under my nose.
And the fact that all the rest of them, or their presumed boss doesn't immediately take out a full-page mea culpa means that every member of their faith is answerable for murder, right?
Even if I was to agree with that, part of my point was that Jonasson went further to say that the faith itself is toxic, so the action isn't really the point. And even if they had all gathered in the streets and accepted guilt they would still be wrong.
People have been using that logic against groups they want to demonize since forever - immigrants, blacks, Native people, Italians, Irish, Anarchists, Communists. And in the wake of this little doubledown - Jews. The real ones, I mean. Not the evil, toxic pretend murdering ones that Jonasson was talking about.
And yeah, with real examples that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they - all their various sects, I suppose, since they kinda look the same and it's not up to us to tell them apart - are all guilty.
Sorry, but I think we are going to have to agree to disagree, and not even because of the list of atrocities that separate the two. Because there is a big difference between a group which takes over nations and one which tries to separate itself from the rest of society.
Again, my only quibble is that Jonasson didn't recognize that distinction when someone decided to play gotcha. I have certainly made similar hyperbolaeic statements that probably are discriminatory. Not so important as a private citizen, but as Mr. Richler correctly points out, the rules are a bit different for a politician (and a minister IMO).
But perhaps I am wrong. After all, that kind of demonizing politics seems to have gotten Harper a big jump in the polls.
At least someone is seeing beyond party divides, and not being so focused on votes that they don't see the real issue. Just what we need: a barbarian snitch line:
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/tories-promise-rcmp-tip-line-for-peopl...