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Should Justin Trudeau have to step down for saying David Suzuki is full of sanctimonious crap"?

quizzical
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Joined: Dec 8 2011

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quizzical
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Joined: Dec 8 2011

for AC's desire from here

i think AC's got a point.

this is seriously offensive given Suzuki's commitment to Canada and the world and his family's lived experience in Canada.

maybe because i'm from BC i'm more sensitive to slights against Suzuki, as i'm pissed anout Harper's actions towards the Suzuki institute tooo, but this is ugly and personal.

how can anyone of thoughtful caring about the environment and people say something like this?


6079_Smith_W
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Joined: Jun 10 2010

I think that while we are navel gazing and hand-wringing the guy who doesn't give a shit what people think about him is slowly climbing in the polls.

 


Mr. Magoo
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As I understand it, he referred to Suzuki's views on climate change as "sanctimonious crap" during a private telephone conversation that Suzuki later shared.  Suzuki called him a "twerp", so I'd say they're even.


adma
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6079_Smith_W wrote:

I think that while we are navel gazing and hand-wringing the guy who doesn't give a shit what people think about him is slowly climbing in the polls.

Though I think this particular thread is attempting to fold the terrytrolling back against itself.

Even so, I agree that with each "Should Candidate X have to step down" thread being fed, Harper inches everr closer to his "Cameron Majority".


Arthur Cramer
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Joined: Nov 30 2010

No Mr. Magoo, he's not even. Le Dauphin wants to PM. He is supposed to be able to at like a leader, and get along with people. This is not a break even moment. Not even close. Trudeau shows his arrogance; it'll be another Imperial Prime Minister ship, just like all LPC Prime MInisters have been Shawinigan Hankshake anyone? Or is it OK because he likes pepper on his steak?


jjuares
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Joined: Jan 21 2012
I have been involved in campaigns in several roles including being the candidate. I never talked about the size of the effect for any particular event. I did this because I was surprised how things would bounce. I simply used to say events are either helpful or unhelpful to the campaign. This is unhelpful to Trudeau's campaign.

Mr. Magoo
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Joined: Dec 13 2002

I don't particularly like Justin Trudeau, but if he called someone else's opinion "sanctimonious crap" in a phone call with them, and if that person then told everyone about this, I'm really not going to lose my shit. 


Arthur Cramer
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Mr. Magoo, as Joe Biden said "this is a BFD"!


Mr. Magoo
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Well!  It surely must be if it made you totally reverse your opinion of Trudeau.  Were it not for your prior support of him I *might* think this was just a "gotcha" moment for you.


Pondering
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Joined: Jun 14 2013

Mr. Magoo wrote:

As I understand it, he referred to Suzuki's views on climate change as "sanctimonious crap" during a private telephone conversation that Suzuki later shared.  Suzuki called him a "twerp", so I'd say they're even.

I'd say they are even too.

The program includes support for the Keystone XL pipeline, a rejection of the Northern Gateway pipeline and a commitment to work with the provinces to establish a cap-and-trade system.

“I said, ‘Justin, stop it, you’re just being political, you just want to make headway in Alberta,’” Suzuki says he told Trudeau. “You’re for the development of the tar sands, you’re for the Keystone pipeline, but you’re against the Northern Gateway, you’re all over the damn map!”

Suzuki went on to advise Trudeau that taking the target of a 2 degree rise in temperature seriously means 80 per cent of the oil sands has to stay in the ground. Suzuki believes stopping oil sands development will mean “no debate about pipelines or expanding railways or shipping stuff offshore—none of that comes into it.”

Suzuki says this is when the exchange turned nasty. “He said, ‘I don’t have to listen to this sanctimonious crap. I proceeded to call him a twerp.”

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/why-david-suzuki-called-justin-tr...

I suspect the "nasty" is the journalist's choice of words not Suzuki's. Tempest in a tea-pot. It's not like Mulcair is planning on shutting down the oil sands.

 


Pondering
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jjuares wrote:
I have been involved in campaigns in several roles including being the candidate. I never talked about the size of the effect for any particular event. I did this because I was surprised how things would bounce. I simply used to say events are either helpful or unhelpful to the campaign. This is unhelpful to Trudeau's campaign.

Unfortunately I think there are quite a few Canadians who agree with Trudeau.  I don't think it will hurt his campaign. It might even help.


quizzical
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Joined: Dec 8 2011

Mr. Magoo wrote:
As I understand it, he referred to Suzuki's views on climate change as "sanctimonious crap" during a private telephone conversation that Suzuki later shared.  Suzuki called him a "twerp", so I'd say they're even.

views on climate change can't be sanctimonious only people. definition is:

'making a show of being morally superior to other people'

so Justin called Suzuki a fake as well calling his environmental actions over the decades crap. thinking about it i guess you just did too as you think "twerp" is equivalent to "sanctimonious crap"

um...don't think phoning looking for endorsement aka intro at next day's gathering and thus his environmental platform too is private now is it?

Justin is a twerp and more.


Mr. Magoo
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I guess I'm just not seeing the part where Saint David of Suzuki is beyond criticism.  Certainly nobody has to AGREE with Justin on this, but I think it's a bit extreme to pretend he's guilty of sacrilege.  During a phone call.


Misfit
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Joined: Jun 27 2014
Well, it was neither professional nor graceful. It was a temper tantrum outburst when Justin did not get his own way. It is also a very similar comment that he gave to Peter Kent in the House of Commons. I expect a leader of a major political party and a PM hopeful to display a higher level of class and tact.

Mr. Magoo
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Joined: Dec 13 2002

Quote:
Well, it was neither professional nor graceful.

Nor public.

I'm not supporting him here, but "should he have to step down???"  Really.  He's clearly lost your vote; isn't that enough?


jjuares
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Joined: Jan 21 2012
Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Well, it was neither professional nor graceful.

Nor public.

I'm not supporting him here, but "should he have to step down???"  Really.  He's clearly lost your vote; isn't that enough?

Of course he shouldn't have to step down. Being a jerk does not disqualify you from being PM. Let's not engage in hyperbole.

Mr. Magoo
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Joined: Dec 13 2002

Quote:
Being a jerk does not disqualify you from being PM.

Nor from coming third.  Go Justin!  Visualize the Bronze!


bekayne
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Joined: Jan 23 2006

Arthur Cramer wrote:

No Mr. Magoo, he's not even. Le Dauphin wants to PM. He is supposed to be able to at like a leader, and get along with people. This is not a break even moment. Not even close. Trudeau shows his arrogance; it'll be another Imperial Prime Minister ship, just like all LPC Prime MInisters have been Shawinigan Hankshake anyone? Or is it OK because he likes pepper on his steak?

Does this indicate anything about how someone would lead?

"J'ai hâte de te voir en prison, vieille plotte"

https://www.google.ca/search?q=mulcair+duhaime&rlz=1C1CHWA_enCA626CA626&oq=mulcair+duhaime&aqs=chrome..69i57.11895j0j8&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#q=J%27ai+h%C3%A2te+de+te+voir+en+prison%2C+vieille+plotte


Brachina
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Joined: Feb 15 2012

 I like David, I don't always agree with him, but I respect what he's done, not just for the enviroment, but science itself.

 It was one thing for Trudeau to disagree with David, but for Trudeau to be so disrespectful and out right rude to one of the greatest Canadians is absolutely unacceptible.

 I'll note that while David has had disagreements with leaders from all parties, not once did it ever become personal, no other leader insulted David enough to earn the title Twerp from David, only Trudeau is uniquely asshole enough to earn such a title from a figure who unlike Trudeau has EARNED the respect of Canadians. That doesn't mean you have to agree with David on everything, I certainly don't, but it does mean you need to treat him with respect, not insult him by calling his life's work and thoughts scantominous crap.

 

 David is a national treasure, that doesn't make him perfect, and he's not above critism, but that should be respectful.


Pondering
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Joined: Jun 14 2013

http://www.duhaime.org/LawMag/LawArticle-1419/Defamation-Double-Jeopardy...

In the result, Thomas Mulcair was found to have slandered Yves Duhaime and held to $75,000 in general damages and $20,000 in punitive damages.

Justice André Dionne wrote, in his March 22, 2005 decision:

“The words of Mr. Mulcair went well beyond a expression of contrary views, open debate, even passionate engagement and freedom of expression in a free and democratic society.”

“The harm done to (Mr. Duhaime’s) reputation is irreparable. One can hope that this judgment will act as ointment for the injury he has suffered and will help him put it behind him.”

As for Thomas Mulcair? The National Assembly paid his legal fees and damages. For him, dues, if dues were due, had been paid.

There is a certain amount of heat lawyers and politicians have to put up with when they do their jobs. Lawyers are adept at sharp practice which often pushes the boundaries of defamation law. Politicians live and breath on that boundary on a daily basis.

Still, that boundary holds albeit often by a tether, as a reminder to us all of the loud bell of justice should we stray beyond, a bell that clang loudly on March 22, 2005.

 

 


Misfit
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Joined: Jun 27 2014
Justin Trudeau's off script gaffes are far too commonplace, and this is a clear example of what more to expect from him if he becomes PM. Mulcair had one defamation lawsuit in a very long political career. Justin Trudeau has had many faux pas in a few short years. There is a very clear distinction to be made between the two of them. The Liberal party has a vast depth of talented people who are capable of leading the party. I have always maintained that they made a huge mistake in electing Justin as their party leader. I am not anti-Justin because he is so successful and is s threat to the NDP, rather I am embarrassed to know that he could be our PM and could make a complete fool of us on the international stage. No, he does not have to step down, but for the sake of the Liberal party, he should step aside and let someone more qualified lead the party. Also, I believe that more people would show better respect for the Liberal party if it had a higher calibre leader.

Rev Pesky
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Joined: May 1 2012

I don't think this was a gaffe at all. Suzuki often comes across as sanctimonious. Any reading of the LEAP Manifesto, for instance, would identify it's authors as people who push 'sanctimonius crap'.

Note also that while Trudeau's comment was about Suzuki's remarks, Suzuki's comment was personal. Now there's a real pro, when someone says something he doesn't like he calls them a twerp. Good argument...


jjuares
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Joined: Jan 21 2012
Rev Pesky wrote:

I don't think this was a gaffe at all. Suzuki often comes across as sanctimonious. Any reading of the LEAP Manifesto, for instance, would identify it's authors as people who push 'sanctimonius crap'.

Note also that while Trudeau's comment was about Suzuki's remarks, Suzuki's comment was personal. Now there's a real pro, when someone says something he doesn't like he calls them a twerp. Good argument...

Oh stop with your bullshit. Don't get upset. That's not a personal remark. Get my point.

Rev Pesky
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By the way, the day after the conversation between Trudeau and Suzuki, David Ware, honorary member of the the board of the Suzuki Foundation, introduced Trudeau at a gathering. Doesn't seem to me like the whole thing was taken that seriously at the time.


jjuares
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Joined: Jan 21 2012
Rev Pesky wrote:

By the way, the day after the conversation between Trudeau and Suzuki, David Ware, honorary member of the the board of the Suzuki Foundation, introduced Trudeau at a gathering. Doesn't seem to me like the whole thing was taken that seriously at the time.

Then why then over two months later did Suzuki talk about this in an interview? He thought it was worth mentioning. I don't think you can draw any conclusion about how seriously it was taken by Suzuki because someone else made some decisions. Sheesh

Left of Left
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Joined: Aug 13 2015

I'd say Justin deserves no more than what he got which was a good dressing-down for trying the patience of venerable old Suzuki-san looking for a pat on the head and some form of an endorsement for an evironmental plank that has more holes in it than it than a slice of swiss cheese.

It's also more than fitting that Suzuki was miffed enough about JT's conciet in believing he could ever get that out of him of all people to let the public know that and exactly what was said on both sides of that exchange.

Frankly I think old Suzuki was being overly kind in merely calling Justin a "twerp", especially when the very first thing he did after being elected as the Liberals new leader was to fly out to Calgary and re-assure all the oil barons that it would strictly be "business as usual" for the tar sands if he gets elected before zipping-off to the States to stump for the Keystone Pipeline reading off the very same script that Harper had used.

He also avoided any overt critcism of Harper when quite pointedly asked about the differences between the two men and parties by a curious American media that was wondering who he was and why he had come if it was only to say exactly the same thing Harper had merely a few months before?

Now there are some things venerable old Suzuki-san says that I happen to disagree with him on, but I know that he himself is thoroughly convinced and believes in what he is saying and why he must say it and I very much respect him for that and the consistency he has always maintained about who and what he is and is always ready to stand-up and fight for.

Regrettably, I can't say the same thing about young Trudeau who neither means what he says or says what he means to give us even the slightest indication of what, if anything he can possibly be expected, much less trusted to do, in light of that.

Suzuki keeps pretty much to himself these days. Old age is creeping up on him and his wife has had serious health concerns over the past few years and he leaves the running of the Foundation for others to decide, so it's more likely than not that he didn't say anything to anyone about his short and disagreeable conversation with Trudeau until the interview he was engaged in and the context of the coversation happened to bring it to mind. He's been fighting political and economic expediency and what it's done to the environment his entire life and that was just another personal anecdote he had to add to it and how it has gone.


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

At first glance, I thought this thread was a typically stupid hyper-partisan effort to avoid discussing issues and engage in some free attack ads.

At second glance, I realized just how scandalous the original incident was.

How dare Suzuki compare Trudeau to Miley Cyrus??

What concrete evidence can he adduce to prove that Trudeau has ever engaged in twerping??

I think Justin has an easy win on a human rights complaint, civil defamation suit, possibly even a Criminal Code hate speech charge.

Many many thanks for this important thread. I was getting so sick and tired of all the diversionary boring "save the planet", "leave the bitumen in the ground", "no pipelines", "green whatever" latte-sipping sanctimonious crap.

 


lagatta
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Joined: Apr 17 2002

And how on earth is the LEAP manifesto "sanctimonious crap"?

I could see Justin as a twerking instructor.

 


abnormal
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Joined: Aug 18 2001

Mr. Magoo wrote:

As I understand it, he referred to Suzuki's views on climate change as "sanctimonious crap" during a private telephone conversation that Suzuki later shared.  Suzuki called him a "twerp", so I'd say they're even.

So they're both right?

 

 

 


Ciabatta2
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Joined: Jan 23 2009

It certainly reeks of bad judgment.  And I wouldn't say it if I were running for election.  But I would agree with Justin.  Suzuki is full of sanctimonious crap and pretty much 80 percent of the environmental movement has given him a finger wag, middle figer or could shoulder at some point.


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