babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.
Collateral damage from Canada's booming oilsands sector may be irreversible, posing a "significant environmental and financial risk to the province of Alberta," says a secret memorandum prepared for the federal government's top bureaucrat.
The memorandum, released by the Privy Council Office through access to information legislation, also raises doubts about recent industry and government claims that oilsands companies are reducing heat-trapping gases produced by each barrel of oil.
The industry has suggested that a shift in oilsands extraction to use steam to remove synthetic crude oil from natural bitumen deposits on site can reduce land disruption and provide for reductions in energy and emissions. But the memo, prepared for Wayne Wouters, the clerk of the Privy Council Office - the lead department in the federal government's bureaucracy - said this shift is actually accelerating the industry's impact on climate change, with emissions growth projected to be greater over the next decade than all other Canadian economic sectors combined.
"While the industry has taken steps to reduce emissions, the shift from mining to in situ production, which is almost three times as emissions intensive as mining, is resulting in a continued acceleration of emissions from this sector," said the memo....
"While the industry has taken steps to recycle water and collaborate on the development of innovative tailings management technologies, at this point in time, it is far from clear that tailings ponds can be adequately restored," said the memo, obtained by Ottawa researcher Ken Rubin. "Other environmental issues, such as the loss of wetlands and habitat, also exist and pose a risk to the ecological integrity of the oilsands region. At present the cumulative impacts of oilsands development are not adequately understood."...
The memo to Wouters noted the oilsands sector extracted six billion barrels in its first 40 years of commercial production, from 1967 to 2007, while it is expected to match that total production in the coming decade. It said this rapid growth "has shed light on the significant environmental challenges associated with this economically important sector," including the greenhouse gas emissions, tailings management, and habitat degradation and loss.
From the testimony of Lee Brain at the Northern Gateway Joint Review Panel:
Converging onto a thin strip of man-made road spanning about two miles in length, we arrived at the Jetty, greeted by military personnel. After a lengthy process of clearing me for entry, we walked onto couple massive docking stations. To my right, men were conducting repairs on a rather standard sized vessel, no larger than the ones you would see here in our Harbour. In the distance, a ULCC fresh from the Middle East was rolling in from the horizon. The size of the vessel stopped me in my tracks. After 10 minutes, the ship stopped and made a slow bank horizontally out at sea.
I asked one of the managers -- Jitesh was his name -- why the ship stopped so far out. He told me that because of the size of the ship, they had a floating unloading station, and through another piping system they unload and load way out there, and that connects to the main routing station at the Jetty, to be piped a few miles back to the refinery.
I asked him why, and he said, "Even though we have docking stations here, it is for the smaller vessels that are used for domestic purposes. But these larger vessels that come from the Middle East can run aground easily."
This, in open seas, I thought.
So we all stood there, suspended in what felt like an eternal moment -the heat waves rising above the calmed Arabian Sea, and the ship danced in the horizon as I stood dumbfounded by its sheer mass. One man comments: “I always forget just how large those vessels are.”
A few moments pass as we all stood, just watching.
Out of the silence, Jitesh says to me “Do you see what we are doing here Mr. Lee?”
I asked “What’s that, Jitesh?”
He replied, with an unexpected, sobering tone: “We are destroying future generations for now, and forever.”
And in this kind of slow motion life moment, I felt this kind of tingling feeling on the top of my head– and with sweat dripping down from the inside of my hard hat onto my face, the sun beaming into my eyes -- I squint over at six men slowing nodding their heads in silent agreement.
It was such a profound statement, and in that moment, there was silence.
In this TEDxVictoria video, photographer Garth Lenz (yes, that's his name) shows his photos of the Tar Sands and argues powerfully that the mining of Tar Sands bitumen must stop.
OTTAWA • Thomas Mulcair, the New Democratic Party leadership candidate most likely to assume the prime-minister-in-waiting mantle after next Saturday’s final balloting, has issued some soothing words about his plans for the oil sands sector.
“You’ll never hear me speaking against the development of the oil sands,” he told the Toronto Star last week before laying out his polluter-pay policy for the oil and gas industry.
But Mr. Mulcair’s long record as a consistent oil sands industry critic puts him on a collision course with the industry and large chunks of public opinion in Western Canada, according to one analyst....
The oil giants, and the governments that supposedly regulate them, frequently claim that after mining the Alberta tar sands they will restore the area to its previous condition.
They are lying.
Much of the area they are despoiling is peatland, which cannot be restored. What’s more, digging up the peat releases massive amounts of CO2 that has not been included in previous calculations of the global warming impact of the world’s worst environmental crime.
Contrary to claims made in the media, peatland destroyed by open-pit mining will not be restored. Current plans dictate its replacement with upland forest and tailings storage lakes, amounting to the destruction of over 29,500 ha of peatland habitat. Landscape changes caused by currently approved mines will release between 11.4 and 47.3 million metric tons of stored carbon and will reduce carbon sequestration potential by 5,734–7,241 metric tons C/y. These losses have not previously been quantified, and should be included with the already high estimates of carbon emissions from oil sands mining and bitumen upgrading.”
This, bear in mind, is based on agreements. None of the tar sands mines has yet been restored at all....
Yesterday's federal budget shortened the time for environmental reviews and that is a clear sign that the Gateway will begin construction this fall or winter.... when protests and potential saboteurs will be less able, and less likely, to disrupt the construction.
As part of the justification for ramming the Gateway pipeline through, we can expect to hear oil people and government conservatives say that "there is too much money invested in the Oil Sands to have it's bitumen stranded", and "Canada stands to lose too much by not accessing new markets for Oil Sands bitumen".
Ahh, so never mind that they made a huge mistake going ahead with $Billions in new tar sands expansion, its never industry's fault for being shortsighted. [a huge new expansion project started just a few months ago]
When the big bucks are at stake, they will be fascists about it. The broader definition of violence is to force one's views on others... they are using violence... it just might come to that to make everybody's opinion count!!
Yesterday's federal budget shortened the time for environmental reviews and that is a clear sign that the Gateway will begin construction this fall or winter.... when protests and potential saboteurs will be less able, and less likely, to disrupt the construction.
As part of the justification for ramming the Gateway pipeline through, we can expect to hear oil people and government conservatives say that "there is too much money invested in the Oil Sands to have it's bitumen stranded", and "Canada stands to lose too much by not accessing new markets for Oil Sands bitumen".
Ahh, so never mind that they made a huge mistake going ahead with $Billions in new tar sands expansion, its never industry's fault for being shortsighted. [a huge new expansion project started just a few months ago]
When the big bucks are at stake, they will be fascists about it. The broader definition of violence is to force one's views on others... they are using violence... it just might come to that to make everybody's opinion count!!
Construction would also be delayed over the winter I think. In any case the Northern Gateway probably faces court challenges too.
Hell, even the editorial board of the Globe and Mail is distressed:
"The Conservatives are continuing their dishonourable attack meant to intimidate environmental groups, in a budget item that stands out for adding a needless new cost.
"Non-profit groups will be required to 'provide more information on their political activities, including the eztent to which these are funded by foreign sources,' budget documents say. And somehow the government has found $8o-million, at aq time fo rest4raint, for the Canada Revenue Agency to spend on 'education and compliance,' $3o-million of which is for extra audits to ensure the existing 10 per cent rule is maintained (no more than 10 per cent of the funds can be spent on advocacy). Witch hunts don't come cheap."
----------
Of course, if a closing down of sources of information did not cause concern for that paper, they would look even sillier than they do now, suppressing any news of social democratic demands.
I posted in the other thread that the BC Grand Chief said on P&P two days ago that the Northern Gateway faces both court challenges - meaning delays - and physical blockages. (think Oka) One of the P&P pundits reminded viewers that the review process can also turn down the project entirely.
Then Joe Oliver came on the show and said the native communities will change course when they realize the huge potential benefits of the pipeline. (in other words, the feds will shower them with money)
I posted in the other thread that the BC Grand Chief said on P&P two days ago that the Northern Gateway faces both court challenges - meaning delays - and physical blockages. (think Oka) One of the P&P pundits reminded viewers that the review process can also turn down the project entirely.
Then Joe Oliver came on the show and said the native communities will change course when they realize the huge potential benefits of the pipeline. (in other words, the feds will shower them with money)
If Enbridge wants to bribe FN groups they're going to have to try harder. At the moment what they are proposing is not so much to shower them with money, but rather to bathe them in debt.
Independent scientists say that declining caribou health stems chiefly from habitat destruction caused by the encroachment of the tar sands and timber industries. But in a perverse attempt to cover industry’s tracks, the Alberta government is ignoring the science and shifting the blame to a hapless scapegoat: the wolf.
Question: if the NDP form the next federal government, what will be their policy with regard to the tar sands? Can they change anything, clean it up, what?
Bob Rae Praises Oilsandswww.huffingtonpost.ca Alberta's oilsands are a tremendous benefit to Canada, but they need strong regulation from the federal and provincial governments, says federal interim Liberal Leader Bob Rae.
Interesting debate on P&P tonight, although the host (Hannah Thibedeau substituting for Evan Solomon on summer break) was clearly trying to set up confrontations I guess to get more excitement and feedback.
First was a clip of Allison Redford saying Alberta's royalties belong to the people of Alberta and can't be negotiated with BC. Then Christy Clark saying the royalties have to be negotiated with BC as a partner - taking all the enviro risks - or the project will not go through BC. Then, Brad Wall of Sask siding with Redford because he's deathly afraid of the precedent that could be set - basically that the federation could collapse - because any province shipping hazardous or dangerous material could be then forced to pay royalties to every other province the shipment has to go through. Wall is concerned that uranium shipments from Sask could be held hostage by any province deciding it doesn't want uranium shipped through it unless there's royalties to be paid for taking the risks. I think Wall suggested that the pipeline owners - not the province (Alberta) should have to pay for the environment risk of shipping through BC. Interesting argument.
They're meeting in NS this week I think, and it - according to the P&P panel - could be a nasty meeting.
Weird. Last night on P&P, Christy Clark was complaining about the frosty reception she got from Allison Redford recently in Edmonton for their secret meeting.
There has been some speculation that if Clark and Redford can stage a spat and make Clark look better in the eyes of BCians, then Clark has some chance in hell of getting re-elected, so that once she is, she can get back on board with NGP v2.0.
No problem Boom Boom if you just ship the filthy bitumen east instead of west all the problems are fixed.
Quote:
The reality is that for most open-pit tar sands mines, restoring the land to its natural state has never been part of the plan. For decades now, the industry has been digging gargantuan holes, each one averaging four kilometres wide and as deep as an eight storey building, to strip mine tar sands. Instead of trying to fill the holes with dirt – a huge volume – they’re opting for the cheaper option of using them as a toxic waste dump. Then covering it with clean water and calling it a “lake”. Feel like going for a swim yet? In addition to fresh water, many of these lakes will also be filled with toxic tar sands ‘tailings’ that includes water, clay, mercury, arsenic, lead, benzene and particularly nasty chemical known as naphthenic acid. The hope is that the bad stuff stays at the bottom and never mixes with the clean water up top. Sounds risky. Want to hear the real kicker in this plan? That’s basically all the oil industry plans to do. Fill them with toxic water and walk away. No replanting of trees, no bucolic buffalo grazing, no restored wetlands and muskeg. Just a pit filled with dirty water. A massive experiment that could leave a dangerous toxic legacy behind.
Kevin O'Leary is on 'The Lang and O'leary Exchange" saying we should be teaching children in school that the oilsands is the most valuable resource in Canada and we need to preserve it for future generations as well.
You know, considering it a valuable resource and something to keep around for future generations is not such a bad angle. I consider myself an environmentalist, but I think the undeniable truth about fossil fuels is that they are the ultimate backup power. If the transmission systems go down, and your local hospital can no longer tap into the waterfalls, windmills, solar panels, etc, and their high-tech backup batteries deplete... well they can crank up a diesel generator. If running that hospital for a few hours or a few days on diesel saves lives when nothing else can, I consider it a justifiable use. (Sure, maybe they could keep a tank of recycled biodiesel. But let's just say for argument's sake that in a future where renewable energy is used to its maximum potential, biodiesel is in super-hot demand and not always available in large quantities.)
If we maximized the uses of renewable energy and reserved fossil fuels for emergency backup, public safety, health protection etc, then the extractable fuels left on the globe would pretty much never run out, and the overall rate of consumption would be negligible compared to the present day.
Well, aside from being a terrible polluter and a driver of climate change, reliance on tar sands steals away investment that might otherwise go to environmentally sustainable energy alternatives. It is absolutely inexcuseable to me to support in any way further exploitation of this filthy project, and it should not only be scaled back but stopped in its tracks entirely. Anyone defending this project has zero environmental cred with me whatsoever.
ETA: *sigh* For all my words, I'm also a realist - there is as much chance of an NDP federal government shutting down the tar sands as there is of an NDP federal government disbanding the military.
I was just thinking of how, say, Norway takes the "sovereign wealth fund" approach to their resource extraction, building up assets for future generations and diverting some of that money into alternative energy. And they are still willing to come to the table and agree to emissions reduction targets. Will they be able to meet those targets? I don't know. But they seem more likely to than with Canada's "everything to the lowest bidder" approach.
If the sands were treated as a resource with future value and with environmental impacts accounted for in their cost... and as one part of a diversified economy in a country that acknowledges that science is real... we'd have some hope of scaling them back and/or reducing their impact to no less than conventional extraction.
Someone posted recently that Chinese investment in the Alberta tar sands will reach 70% - and I lost that link.
Okay, if China has a 70% investment in the tar sands, what exactly does that mean? That they are entitled to 70% of the profits? That they own 70% of the tar sands? That they expect to export 70% of the tar sands product?
And - if Northern Gateway is not approved or otherwise blocked by BC, how does China retaliate? Or will they simply ask permission to expand pipeline production through Vancouver (Kinder Morgan pipeline I think it's called)?
Question: can the Kinder Morgan pipeline be slowed down by the BC NDP government once elected?
I think Vancouverites would like to see fewer tankers in their waters, although that is just a guess - I'm in Quebec.
(I have relatives and friends in Vancouver and Surrey I used to visit, though)
Secret government memo warns oilsands damage may be irreversible
by Mike De Souza, Postmedia News, February 21, 2012
From the testimony of Lee Brain at the Northern Gateway Joint Review Panel:
Converging onto a thin strip of man-made road spanning about two miles in length, we arrived at the Jetty, greeted by military personnel. After a lengthy process of clearing me for entry, we walked onto couple massive docking stations. To my right, men were conducting repairs on a rather standard sized vessel, no larger than the ones you would see here in our Harbour. In the distance, a ULCC fresh from the Middle East was rolling in from the horizon. The size of the vessel stopped me in my tracks. After 10 minutes, the ship stopped and made a slow bank horizontally out at sea.
I asked one of the managers -- Jitesh was his name -- why the ship stopped so far out. He told me that because of the size of the ship, they had a floating unloading station, and through another piping system they unload and load way out there, and that connects to the main routing station at the Jetty, to be piped a few miles back to the refinery.
I asked him why, and he said, "Even though we have docking stations here, it is for the smaller vessels that are used for domestic purposes. But these larger vessels that come from the Middle East can run aground easily."
This, in open seas, I thought.
So we all stood there, suspended in what felt like an eternal moment -the heat waves rising above the calmed Arabian Sea, and the ship danced in the horizon as I stood dumbfounded by its sheer mass. One man comments: “I always forget just how large those vessels are.”
A few moments pass as we all stood, just watching.
Out of the silence, Jitesh says to me “Do you see what we are doing here Mr. Lee?”
I asked “What’s that, Jitesh?”
He replied, with an unexpected, sobering tone: “We are destroying future generations for now, and forever.”
And in this kind of slow motion life moment, I felt this kind of tingling feeling on the top of my head– and with sweat dripping down from the inside of my hard hat onto my face, the sun beaming into my eyes -- I squint over at six men slowing nodding their heads in silent agreement.
It was such a profound statement, and in that moment, there was silence.
http://www.vancouverobserver.com/blogs/earthmatters/2012/02/20/oil-execu...
That's a very important speech, Ripple.
But you buried the lead! The speaker, Lee Brain, is the 26-year-old son of an oil company executive!
The True Cost of Oil
In this TEDxVictoria video, photographer Garth Lenz (yes, that's his name) shows his photos of the Tar Sands and argues powerfully that the mining of Tar Sands bitumen must stop.
OTTAWA • Thomas Mulcair, the New Democratic Party leadership candidate most likely to assume the prime-minister-in-waiting mantle after next Saturday’s final balloting, has issued some soothing words about his plans for the oil sands sector.
“You’ll never hear me speaking against the development of the oil sands,” he told the Toronto Star last week before laying out his polluter-pay policy for the oil and gas industry.
But Mr. Mulcair’s long record as a consistent oil sands industry critic puts him on a collision course with the industry and large chunks of public opinion in Western Canada, according to one analyst....
http://business.financialpost.com/2012/03/19/oil-patch-has-concerns-with...
Yesterday's federal budget shortened the time for environmental reviews and that is a clear sign that the Gateway will begin construction this fall or winter.... when protests and potential saboteurs will be less able, and less likely, to disrupt the construction.
As part of the justification for ramming the Gateway pipeline through, we can expect to hear oil people and government conservatives say that "there is too much money invested in the Oil Sands to have it's bitumen stranded", and "Canada stands to lose too much by not accessing new markets for Oil Sands bitumen".
Ahh, so never mind that they made a huge mistake going ahead with $Billions in new tar sands expansion, its never industry's fault for being shortsighted. [a huge new expansion project started just a few months ago]
When the big bucks are at stake, they will be fascists about it. The broader definition of violence is to force one's views on others... they are using violence... it just might come to that to make everybody's opinion count!!
Construction would also be delayed over the winter I think. In any case the Northern Gateway probably faces court challenges too.
I posted in the other thread that the BC Grand Chief said on P&P two days ago that the Northern Gateway faces both court challenges - meaning delays - and physical blockages. (think Oka) One of the P&P pundits reminded viewers that the review process can also turn down the project entirely.
Then Joe Oliver came on the show and said the native communities will change course when they realize the huge potential benefits of the pipeline. (in other words, the feds will shower them with money)
If Enbridge wants to bribe FN groups they're going to have to try harder. At the moment what they are proposing is not so much to shower them with money, but rather to bathe them in debt.
The Canadian Oil Sand Mines Refused Us Access, So We Rented This Plane To See What They Were Doing
(long webpage with photos - awesome)
ETA: a friend who lives less than 250 km south of the tar sands says the sky is quite often hazy, and they get acid rain.
Question: if the NDP form the next federal government, what will be their policy with regard to the tar sands? Can they change anything, clean it up, what?
Bob Rae Praises Oilsands www.huffingtonpost.ca Alberta's oilsands are a tremendous benefit to Canada, but they need strong regulation from the federal and provincial governments, says federal interim Liberal Leader Bob Rae.
Interesting debate on P&P tonight, although the host (Hannah Thibedeau substituting for Evan Solomon on summer break) was clearly trying to set up confrontations I guess to get more excitement and feedback.
First was a clip of Allison Redford saying Alberta's royalties belong to the people of Alberta and can't be negotiated with BC. Then Christy Clark saying the royalties have to be negotiated with BC as a partner - taking all the enviro risks - or the project will not go through BC. Then, Brad Wall of Sask siding with Redford because he's deathly afraid of the precedent that could be set - basically that the federation could collapse - because any province shipping hazardous or dangerous material could be then forced to pay royalties to every other province the shipment has to go through. Wall is concerned that uranium shipments from Sask could be held hostage by any province deciding it doesn't want uranium shipped through it unless there's royalties to be paid for taking the risks. I think Wall suggested that the pipeline owners - not the province (Alberta) should have to pay for the environment risk of shipping through BC. Interesting argument.
They're meeting in NS this week I think, and it - according to the P&P panel - could be a nasty meeting.
CAPTION CONTEST!!!
(Source URL: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/07/24/northern-gateway-pipeline-royalt...)
"Is that an election or are you just happy to see me?"
Weird. Last night on P&P, Christy Clark was complaining about the frosty reception she got from Allison Redford recently in Edmonton for their secret meeting.
There has been some speculation that if Clark and Redford can stage a spat and make Clark look better in the eyes of BCians, then Clark has some chance in hell of getting re-elected, so that once she is, she can get back on board with NGP v2.0.
No doubt. Brad Lavigne on P&P attacked Clark for being too late in demanding more from the pipeline proposal, as did the other NDP critic on P&P.
Enbridge in the news - again!!
U.S. pipeline agency to probe Enbridge oil spill in Wisconsin
This incompetent company should be driven out of business.
Ever wonder what will happen to the land razed by tar sands mining after oil companies are done with it?
No problem Boom Boom if you just ship the filthy bitumen east instead of west all the problems are fixed.
The upside of environmental degradation, for me as an analytical chemist, is that I'll never run out of nasty things to be hired to test for :P
Perhaps I should be testing for naphthenic acid in Alberta-grown produce...
Kevin O'Leary is on 'The Lang and O'leary Exchange" saying we should be teaching children in school that the oilsands is the most valuable resource in Canada and we need to preserve it for future generations as well.
You know, considering it a valuable resource and something to keep around for future generations is not such a bad angle. I consider myself an environmentalist, but I think the undeniable truth about fossil fuels is that they are the ultimate backup power. If the transmission systems go down, and your local hospital can no longer tap into the waterfalls, windmills, solar panels, etc, and their high-tech backup batteries deplete... well they can crank up a diesel generator. If running that hospital for a few hours or a few days on diesel saves lives when nothing else can, I consider it a justifiable use. (Sure, maybe they could keep a tank of recycled biodiesel. But let's just say for argument's sake that in a future where renewable energy is used to its maximum potential, biodiesel is in super-hot demand and not always available in large quantities.)
If we maximized the uses of renewable energy and reserved fossil fuels for emergency backup, public safety, health protection etc, then the extractable fuels left on the globe would pretty much never run out, and the overall rate of consumption would be negligible compared to the present day.
Well, aside from being a terrible polluter and a driver of climate change, reliance on tar sands steals away investment that might otherwise go to environmentally sustainable energy alternatives. It is absolutely inexcuseable to me to support in any way further exploitation of this filthy project, and it should not only be scaled back but stopped in its tracks entirely. Anyone defending this project has zero environmental cred with me whatsoever.
ETA: *sigh* For all my words, I'm also a realist - there is as much chance of an NDP federal government shutting down the tar sands as there is of an NDP federal government disbanding the military.
I do agree the sands are dirty.
I was just thinking of how, say, Norway takes the "sovereign wealth fund" approach to their resource extraction, building up assets for future generations and diverting some of that money into alternative energy. And they are still willing to come to the table and agree to emissions reduction targets. Will they be able to meet those targets? I don't know. But they seem more likely to than with Canada's "everything to the lowest bidder" approach.
If the sands were treated as a resource with future value and with environmental impacts accounted for in their cost... and as one part of a diversified economy in a country that acknowledges that science is real... we'd have some hope of scaling them back and/or reducing their impact to no less than conventional extraction.
Someone posted recently that Chinese investment in the Alberta tar sands will reach 70% - and I lost that link.
Okay, if China has a 70% investment in the tar sands, what exactly does that mean? That they are entitled to 70% of the profits? That they own 70% of the tar sands? That they expect to export 70% of the tar sands product?
And - if Northern Gateway is not approved or otherwise blocked by BC, how does China retaliate? Or will they simply ask permission to expand pipeline production through Vancouver (Kinder Morgan pipeline I think it's called)?
Question: can the Kinder Morgan pipeline be slowed down by the BC NDP government once elected?
I think Vancouverites would like to see fewer tankers in their waters, although that is just a guess - I'm in Quebec.
(I have relatives and friends in Vancouver and Surrey I used to visit, though)
Oil Sands Workers Re-Hired After Getting Sacked For Cheap Croatian Labour
http://www.ottawasun.com/2014/02/07/feds-look-into-claims-oilsands-worke...
"The AFL said that the ironworkers would have been paid over $36 an hour but the temporary workers were going to get $18 an hour for the same work..."
Just noticed this is also posted to the Jason Kenney thread. Any comments or discussions should go there..