babble-intro-img
babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.

Misogynist judge desperately seeks to save his job

Unionist
Offline
Joined: Dec 11 2005

*


Comments

Unionist
Offline
Joined: Dec 11 2005

Justice Robin Camp tells inquiry he's learned from 'hurtful' comments he made at sex assault trial

They really should tie his knees together and usher him out into the street.

 


Mr. Magoo
Offline
Joined: Dec 13 2002

Why does he even want the job?  And how did he ever get it?

Certainly his misogynist comments grab the headlines, but I'm also pretty puzzled that he would refer to the victim as "the accused".  I would assume that the job is ideally one of those "detail oriented" jobs X10.


Unionist
Offline
Joined: Dec 11 2005

Quote:

The third day of the inquiry into Camp's conduct began with testimony from Brenda Cossman, the director of the University of Toronto's Centre for sexual diversity studies.

After five two- to three-hour sessions with Camp discussing the history of sexual assault law in Canada and assigning reading to him, Cossman believes she has successfully educated the judge who asked an alleged rape victim why she "couldn't just keep [her] knees together."

Oh Jesus Christ, really.

 


pookie
Offline
Joined: Dec 13 2005

Lots of shock and dismay in my circles about Brenda's testimony.

Educate him, sure.

Testify on his behalf?  Why???

 

 

 


Unionist
Offline
Joined: Dec 11 2005

Good question. Is she also from South Africa?


Mr. Magoo
Offline
Joined: Dec 13 2002

Were these sessions ordered by the inquiry, or the Province?  Or were they a voluntary attempt on Camp's part to give his image a car-wash?

Because it strikes me as kind of odd that a sitting justice would need a layperson to edumacate them on the law, and assign readings like he's an undergrad.


Unionist
Offline
Joined: Dec 11 2005

The fact that he doesn't simply have the decency to resign proves that he is beyond education, if proof were required. A shithead like this wouldn't survive in my workplace, and trust me, I don't get paid for judging people. I do it pro bono.

 


pookie
Offline
Joined: Dec 13 2005

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Were these sessions ordered by the inquiry, or the Province?  Or were they a voluntary attempt on Camp's part to give his image a car-wash?

Because it strikes me as kind of odd that a sitting justice would need a layperson to edumacate them on the law, and assign readings like he's an undergrad.

When the complaints surfaced, Camp who had already moved to the Fed Ct, issued a statement of apology.  The Ct said that he was undertaking a program of education "at his own expense".

Experts were paid by him, and testified to that, and their positive impressions of him.

And, yeah, the idea that he was clueless about criminal law but it's alright cuz he was a commercial litigator is absolutely incredible.  Why, then, would you place such a person on a PROVINCIAL COURT where he will be hearing crim trials day in and day out?  You think there's lots of cases of securities that would come across his docket?  His ignorance/lack of experience is further indictment, not a bloody justification!


pookie
Offline
Joined: Dec 13 2005

I will say, Magoo, that judicial education is a "thing" but it tends to be more formalized and systemic.  Conferences and retreats.  As an academic I've participated in several.  You get put up in nice places like St. Andrews by the sea, chat, schmooze, lecture, do exercises with them, and get something like $500-1000 honorarium.

Brenda testified that she gave him an exam.  Honest to God.  I'd pay good coin to see it.

 


pookie
Offline
Joined: Dec 13 2005

Unionist wrote:

The fact that he doesn't simply have the decency to resign proves that he is beyond education, if proof were required. A shithead like this wouldn't survive in my workplace, and trust me, I don't get paid for judging people. I do it pro bono.

 

I agree.  If he had any decency he would not be struggling so mightily to save his skin.  His testimony today belied the glowing portraits.  Very subtle but unmistakeable impression that he is just mouthing stuff.

Oh.  And he referred to the complainant as "the accused" AGAIN.


Mr. Magoo
Offline
Joined: Dec 13 2002

Quote:
Brenda testified that she gave him an exam.  Honest to God.  I'd pay good coin to see it.

Perhaps it was all True/False.  In which case your good coin could also pass it.


pookie
Offline
Joined: Dec 13 2005

Nice one, Magoo. Laughing


Timebandit
Offline
Joined: Sep 25 2001
I hope he's removed from the bench and the bar.

pookie
Offline
Joined: Dec 13 2005

Unlikely in the extreme he'd be disbarred, and that would require a separate proceeding.

But it's not like he'd get lots of offers anyway.  


6079_Smith_W
Offline
Joined: Jun 10 2010


bekayne
Offline
Joined: Jan 23 2006

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2016/09/09/under-fire-judge-camp-wrap...

Camp was supported in the hearing by big-league female witnesses — Manitoba Judge Deborah McCawley, who mentored him, sexual diversity expert Brenda Cossman, who guided him, and psychologist Lori Haskell, who questioned him — hired by him to train him in what we thought judges understood: the law and courtroom behaviour. They were enthusiastic about his eagerness to learn. Camp’s remark that “sex and pain sometimes go together” was brushed away, as was every grotesque thing he said in court. They were his voluntary adjacencies.

Cossman defended Camp’s comments, like the one about women keeping their knees together, as genuine though insensitive evidentiary inquiries. It was puzzling, as these rare judicial hearings always are. But to see Judge McCawley metaphorically wrap her legal robes around Camp and exclaim over his enthusiasm? Now that is flattering. Maybe the trio could start their own agency, The Adjacency Agency.

 


Unionist
Offline
Joined: Dec 11 2005

More from Mallick's excellent article:

Quote:

I am grateful that feminist groups like LEAF have intervenor status at the hearing, and that the rape case itself will be heard again before an educated and civilized judge. I hope the panel will recommend Camp’s removal and the council will ask the federal justice minister to consult Parliament. I cannot see how a modern nation with a feminist prime minister can have judges like this.

One sees a lonely figure. She is a raped indigenous Canadian woman who has wanted to kill herself since these events. She is a University of Pennsylvania student who committed suicide after her rape case failed. She is a helpless actress, felled by a famous predator’s drug.

These women have no flattering male adjacencies. There is no team of men surrounding them with aid, advice and care. It has always been thus.

 


Summer
Offline
Joined: Apr 21 2006

just popped by Babble to see if this inquiry was being discussed.  Does anyone (Pookie?) know how long it might take to get a decision?  What are the chances of his removal?  According to this CBC article, only 2 judges have been recommended for removal since 1971. 

I cannot believe that this man has the gall to defend himself. What an incredible display of entitlement. On what basis does he believe he is qualified to remain a judge? He should have quietly resigned and slinked away in shame. 

I would love to know what Conservative party leadership hopeful and self-proclaimed defender of Canadian values Kellie Leitch thinks about this guy's immigration to Canada.  /rant  (for now).  

 

 


pookie
Offline
Joined: Dec 13 2005

Hi Summer - nice to see you!

No real rules about how long it will take.  I'd say at least a couple months for a decision from the Inquiry Committee which then must be reviewed by the entire CJC. Both of these will be made public.  If we're lucky, it will be wrapped up by Christmas but it might take six months or more.  If the recommendation is for removal he'll almost certainly resign but if not, then there would be further steps at the federal executive and Parliamentary level.

Based solely on precedent, chances of removal are slim, but given current social sensibilities we may be in an era of setting new precedents.  Tough to say.


Summer
Offline
Joined: Apr 21 2006

Thanks Pookie!  I fear you are right about the chances of removal but I am holding out hope that the panel will surprise us. Sigh.


pookie
Offline
Joined: Dec 13 2005

I am going to do something I never do, and predict they will, in fact, vote to remove.  You can all yell at me later.


Timebandit
Offline
Joined: Sep 25 2001

I'm hoping you're right!


alan smithee
Offline
Joined: Jan 7 2010

Fire him,take away his pension and offer him no severance pay.

He can go become a Mennonite,milk cows,churn butter and surround himself with folks who share that opinion.


Unionist
Offline
Joined: Dec 11 2005

alan smithee wrote:
He can go become a Mennonite,milk cows,churn butter and surround himself with folks who share that opinion.

You know, alan, countering his ignorance about women with another kind of ignorance is not the way to go. You obviously have a lot to learn about Mennonites.

A first look at key decisions made at Assembly 2016

Quote:

Assembly 2016 may become known by delegates as a watershed event.

By turns intense and emotional, joyful and worshipful, the gathered delegates made significant decisions that will impact the Mennonite Church Canada body for years to come. They met in Saskatoon, Sask., July 6 to 10, 2016.

On Thursday evening, July 7, delegates voted in favour of repudiating the Doctrine of Discovery—a settler teaching that has marginalized and taken rights away from indigenous people for centuries. While much education on the Doctrine of Discovery has already begun among congregations, much more is required.

On Saturday morning, July 9, 85 percent of the delegates voted in favour of the Being a Faithful Church (BFC) recommendation to create space and test alternative understandings to traditional beliefs on same-sex relationships. Congregations who are asked to bless same sex marriages will now be given space to do so, even as the national family of faith continues testing to see if such discernment is a nudging of the Spirit of God.

[...]

Delegates processed an amended resolution on Palestine and Israel on Saturday evening, in response to a plea from Palestinian Christians that “the global church come alongside the Palestinian people as they suffer under Israel’s 49-year military occupation of their lands.” The amendment included acknowledgment of the suffering of Jewish people in the conflict, and a desire to work with Jewish organizations in Canada as well.

If you want to find religious analogies with his honour the judge, try the Catholic Church.


kropotkin1951
Offline
Joined: Jun 6 2002

Unionist wrote:

If you want to find religious analogies with his honour the judge, try the Catholic Church.

That was my initial reaction and then I came across this. Seems that most Xian sects have the same recurring problems. It is a major side effect to a strict patriarchal system.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/old-order-mennonite-sexual-abuse-...

 


alan smithee
Offline
Joined: Jan 7 2010

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Unionist wrote:

If you want to find religious analogies with his honour the judge, try the Catholic Church.

That was my initial reaction and then I came across this. Seems that most Xian sects have the same recurring problems. It is a major side effect to a strict patriarchal system.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/old-order-mennonite-sexual-abuse-...

 

Thanks, Seems I'm not as ignorant as you think.


Unionist
Offline
Joined: Dec 11 2005

Not sure why we're diverting this thread, but krop posted an article about "Old Order Mennonites" - which are a medieval sect forming approximately TWO PERCENT of Canada's total Mennonite population of 200,000.

So before ridiculing "Mennonites", alan (and you too, krop), inform yourselves, please.

 


BillBC
Offline
Joined: May 16 2009

Your Lurking Conservative here. Not often do I find myself in total agreement with babblers, but I do on this issue.  The man is appalling.  His defence is appalling--ignorance of the law that he is being paid over $330k a year to deal with. Appalling that he didn't just resign.  It is possible that they won't turf him out?  That would be mega-appalling....


Mr. Magoo
Offline
Joined: Dec 13 2002

Quote:
Fire him,take away his pension and offer him no severance pay.

Fire him, sure.  And if it's with cause, my understanding is that no severance is owed.

But on what grounds would the government take away money he's earned?  Even Russell Willams didn't lose his pension, and he MURDERED women.


alan smithee
Offline
Joined: Jan 7 2010

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Fire him,take away his pension and offer him no severance pay.

Fire him, sure.  And if it's with cause, my understanding is that no severance is owed.

But on what grounds would the government take away money he's earned?  Even Russell Willams didn't lose his pension, and he MURDERED women.

That's insanity. The best way to stick it to government employees (that includes the Armed Forces and Judges) that make light of rape or actually murder someone is to take away their pension.

Probably not going to happen but I think that's the logical policy. Force them into destitution.


Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Login or register to post comments