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Liberals to sell Hydro One?
April 27, 2014 - 12:55am
Hydro asset sales could generate $10 billion
Quote:
“So you’ve got what, $10 billion of stuff there you could sell, looking at Hydro One plus the nuclear. And they still own Niagara Falls.”
People of Ontario get to keep Niagara Falls! How generous.
Are we to look forward to another soak-the-consumer 407-type debacle?
The Liberal Party of Ontario is bad news. We need the Ontario NDP to be elected here.
The way that reads to me is that its "too complex" to sell off all of it, so they will have to make do with selling off all the easily managed and maintained parts, and therefore profitable parts, while leaving the taxpayer holding the bag for the old and decrepit and therefore unprofitable parts.
Yes, and you need them FAST. Because if anything is sold off before they're elected, it can never become public again. Not sure why, but apparently that's a strict rule with other provincial NDPs that lobbied against privatization when in opposition but did nothing to reverse it once in power.
Cf. Manitoba Telephone System, Potash Corporation, etc.
Yea, let's use Unionist's approach and keep electing right-wing governments forever.
It was a Liberal government in Québec that bought up and nationalized hydro, and it has remained a single public utility ever since.
Let me know when Ms. Horwath makes the same pledge.
Let me explain what that pledge should look like. "If I'm elected, hydro production and distribution will be a single public utility."
Let me explain what it should not look like: "At present, we are not in support of further privatizing the existing system of production and distribution."
If you don't understand the difference between those two pledges, let me know - I pledge to take a few minutes and reply.
So you're supporting the Liberal position for Hydro, eh Unionist?
Ahh, an ancient history lesson. Yes, made a public utility in 1963. If I recall correctly it was also the Liberal federal government that broke the Canadian Seaman's Union, but someone here is a "unionists" and would know that. They also founded a National Housing Program, and then dismantled that too.
Whichever way the wind blows is a kind of a "principle" I guess.
Go back to sleep Unionist.
It was Rene Levesque under what was at the time the progressive government in Quebec as you well know that nationalized Quebec Hydro.
But carry on with your as usual revisionist history.
What scares me is, there was a time when people would have risen up in defence of Ontario Hydro. But now everyone is mad at their hydro bills. Of course, privatizing would likely be even worse. But that's not much of a rallying cry.
I'm asking why hydro can't become a single public utility in Ontario (as it is in various other provinces and has been for generations), and you run interference for the ONDP which doesn't even have the simple courage of conviction to make that pledge. And you accuse me of supporting the Liberal position! You know damned well that whatever Wynne sells off will never be brought back into the public domain by the Horwath gang of cowards - just as Doer railed against the privatization of MTS while in opposition and did nothing during the many years of NDP rule after (soon to come to an inglorious end) - and likewise with Potash Corp. That's the sad reality you should really be dealing with - that Ontario voters have no progressive choice today, and maybe instead of flattering and prevaricating and making excuses, progressive folks should be encouraging the ONDP to get a leader and a backbone to inspire, you know, like, the so-called "middle class" and those below on the social ladder.
I don't know why you carry on with your personal attacks against me, in thread after thread. The Liberal government of Jean Lesage was light years more progressive than anything the ONDP has ever had on offer, in or out of government. To a person of principle, that proves that party labels don't matter. To you, it means it's time to start jumping up and down and insulting people who are are trying to have a conversation. This is the toxic atmosphere which partisan extremism creates, and it saddens me.
That's not the first time you've ridiculed my "unionist" handle. Lay off, please. It does you no honour. Nor do I need a lecture from you about how bad the federal Liberals were when the broke the CSU, as if that has something to do with the Jean Lesage government and the Quiet Revolution. But of course, for partisan extremists, they see the name "Liberal", and they start jumping up, down, and sidewise. Just as when (rarely) someone switches from Liberal to NDP, they rant and rave about how the person must have been a closet social democrat all along. They certainly never see such a person importing Liberal toxins into the NDP.
I think you're just trying to support the concept of "strategic voting", Unionist. The Liberal plans for Hydro stink. Nothing strategic there.
Actually she has made that promise, she wants to gather all the rogue utilitues that used to be part of hydro and make them a part of Hydro One. I do not believe this extends to private energy providers like people who set up winds farms, just the utility companies I think.
No, I'm trying to get NDP cheerleaders to influence their party leader to take the right stand - you know, the stand that they think she's taking, but it's impossible to say without hiring a hieroglyphic decoder.
Correct. So will the NDP stand for a single public utility? Brachina (above) says "I think" Horwath stands for that. Has she said so? (No, apparently, despite your valiant efforts to pull together disparate statements and stitch a principled statement.) Will she, now that she has decided to go for an election rather than the budget?
That's when you have to start worrying about the record of other provincial governments (Manitoba, Saskatchewan) in the face of privatizations that have become "permanent". Will Horwath take a clear stand and say: "Any privatizations, past or present, will be reversed?"
Should she? What do you think?
Unionist, you're alone in your wondering whether the Ontario NDP is against privatization. No one else finds their stance confusing. For instance, from the TVO site:
Good, I'm alone, but I never wondered that, not once. I asked (many times, in many ways, but I'll assume you didn't get it yet):
1. Will she commit to a single public utility (you know, as in several other provinces)?
2. Will she reverse any new sell-offs the Liberals (or Cons) may do in the interim?
If you can't answer those two questions (and I know very well that you can't), then please say whether you think they deserve an answer or not. I think they're important. I don't like mealy-mouthed insinuations by party leaders where simple folk (like workers - not "middle class" types) are trying to figure out how to vote.
Sorry for the repetition, but you never actually seem to be able to deal with what I've actually said and asked. So, you invent easier questions and provide some easy answers.
Utterly alone. Maybe try finding questions that you do not "know very well that can't" be answered as a way of expanding the conversation beyond a single individual.
I don't say I think, because I know she does. She's against privatizing Hydro One. Seriously why is it you can accept NDP positions unless its engraved in the leaders blood?
Unionist, the NDP's position on Hydro is clear to me. It's here, and I've linked to a similar page from the NDP before. From the site:
Granted, it's not phrased as you feel it should be, but it's clear enough for me, and is worthy of support.
By contrast, the Liberal record on this file is not worthy of support. From the site above:
I like Andrea's great quote on the Liberal's recent interest in selling off and further privatizing Hydro. link
[Sorry - still trying to find the official hydro position - will get back]
U
I was referring to the recent Quebec election, where the corrupt right-wing Liberals ,right in the middle of a major construction scandal, got elected with a fucking majority government.
Thanks U, I can see how brilliant youre political strategies are.
I've looked, but I couldn't find the Liberal's official hydro position. Let us know when you find it. Perhaps Andrea was exaggerating when she said Libs are looking to make "a firesale of our assets in a rerun of the failed privatization of Ontario Hydro by the Conservates."
The TorStar link from the opening post said "Ontario Finance Minister Charles Sousa avoided using the word 'sell' when he announced Friday that the province is looking at options for Ontario Power Generation and Hydro One." So maybe Andrea is not being completely fair to the Libs when she speaks against Liberals looking to sell our assets.
The same corrupt right-wing Liberals that Tom Mulcair publicly declared he was voting for and "called out" Justin Trudeau for not being able to do so.
But I guess that's understandable, as a "federalist" he had no choice. Fortunately he was able to vote for Frank Scott's nephew!
LP,
Thank you for making my point.
Obviously Mulcair had to vote for a federalist party as he is running to be Canada's PM. In a lot ways, it's a no win situation for him.
I, but I'm not running to be Canada's PM, had I voted, would have supported U & legatta's QS. But unfortunately with 3 MLAs there are not in the game. Read the Quebec press - QS is rarely if at all mentioned in political articles. That's not they way I wanted it, but that's the way it is.
It's somewhat similiar to the NDP in BC.
If even one of those LNG plants go ahead the Liberals will be in power for the next 20 years. and by-the-way, they are Liberals in name only.
Some stuff from the now-dead Lib budget (bolding my own):
I acknowledge it's not clear that the Liberals are planning a firesale of power generation, but I feel these beginning steps as outlined above are worrying and that the Liberals should not be supported. They do commit to keeping the nuclear power plants public, but not hydro and other power generation:
Good ad from the Amalgamated Transit Union on the Liberals' plans to privatize various services: link
http://www.680news.com/2015/04/16/liberals-sell-off-large-chunk-hydro-one-report/
That's disturbing. But not surprising. The seeds for this were in "the most progressive budget in decades". I'm curious to hear from the gang of 34 on this.
The gang of 34 are MIA on this, but if they do speak up I'm sure they'll find a bullshit reason to blame Horwath.