College Suspensions
I have never been a fan of institutions taking action against students for off-campus behaviour. See story below.
A college in London, Ont., has suspended eight students following St. Patrick's Day riots over the weekend that caused an estimated $100,000 damage and led to 11 arrests.
Howard Rundle, the president of Fanshawe College, told a news conference today the administration was taking the off-campus violence seriously and would be conducting its own investigation alongside police efforts.
Under the school's student code of conduct, Fanshawe can impose academic penalties on students whose off-campus actions might affect the health and safety of others in the college community.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/03/19/london-riots-st-patricks-...
Well surely it depends, Caissa, as in the case of employers taking action against employees for off-duty behaviour.
If a student sexually harasses another student at the bar down the street from campus, I wouldn't pull technicalities by saying it was "off-campus", therefore the institution can't act to protect the victim.
If the actions of the suspended students can in fact be shown to have affected "the health and safety of others in the college community" - and I have no clue whether that is the case in the present situation - then surely the administration has not only a right, but a duty, to investigate and take action accordingly.
No?
No. We have courts to deal with students' illegal behaviour off-campus.
I have great difficulties giving colleges and universities quasi-judicial powers over students. These often constitute a form of double jeopardy.
I'm willing to say it occassionally "depends". However, the onus of evidence needs to rest with the institution. "Health and sfaety of others in the college community" is too broad of criteria. In addition, sufficient time has not been taken to investigate behaviour before suspensions were handed out.
The cynic in me sees this as nothing but a pr move on the part of Fanshawe.
And high school suspensions:
A Christian student suspended from a high school in Nova Scotia for sporting a T-shirt with the slogan "Life is wasted without Jesus" vows to wear it when he returns to class next week.
William Swinimer, who's in Grade 12, was suspended from Forest Heights Community School in Chester Basin in Lunenburg County for five days. He's due to return to class on Monday.
The devout Christian says the T-shirt is an expression of his beliefs, and he won't stop wearing it.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/05/03/ns-jesus-shir...
After what, 12 years in school plus primary, and he still hasn't learned how to socialize with his fellow students. I'd say its high time he got an F on his report card in the section reserved for getting along with others, and an outright expulsion considered. As is usually the case with rude religion, here it isn't about professing a personal belief, but about attacking the belief systems of others. I blame the parents.
So long as other students are allowed to wear "Christians KILL" and "Jesus blows dead bears" t-shirts, I'll go along with Caissa.
I don't agree with the school's decision. The same logic would allow them to ban left-wing forms of expression on shirts.
[edited for clarity]
When he gets back from suspension he should take it up a notch:
Just to be clear, that is a quote from the CBC news article.
I find it hard to blieve this is the same Fanshawe College that sponsored the Jane Fonda protest along with many of her supporters against the Viet Nam war in 1970 - I was there. Quite a few folks from UWO as well. The whole thing was delayed until 2am because of a fracas at the border crossing where Fonda "had words" with the Ontario border cops. I'm trying to remember if there were rock bands playing to fill the dead air, but my recollection of that evening is a bit sketchy - we were all smoking pot as I recall. I do remember Fonda, despite being tired and angry, nevertheless gave a rousing speech.
No, not the same logic. The t-shirt is an incitement and an insult against others. It just doesn't say "I believe in Jesus." It says everyone else's life is worthless unless they too believe in Jesus. It has no place in an institution funded by everyone. Essentially, you agree that this student should be permitted to display offensive statements that spout an opinion about other people's lives. What about a placard telling his fellow students they're all going to hell? It's the same message as the one he's already worn. Apparently its not the first time he's been told not to display it at school. Just because he's Christian, you believe he should have the right to express vile ignorance against what other people are trying to make of their lives? How about just that, "I believe in Jesus?" But no, freaks like this are never satisified with that. They're apparently not satisified until given a free ride to shit on everyone else wherever they please.
I agree with Caissa. There were ads on the TTC that said "There is no god but Allah", and found to be OK. Same logic.
Well, TTC riders who might object to that statement have every right to complain about it, and to expect that it be taken down, or to at least have the statement itself removed. Public spaces are not churches, mosques or temples, etc. What I don't get is why it's so difficult to understand the concept of keeping one's offensive shit to oneself, especially in the public domain and on display areas funded by everyone's taxes and patronage.
I'm far more reticient to restrict speech in public than you are Slumberjack. I see very little difference between political, religious and philosophical speech. I find it especially egregious when schools try to limit speech.
They did complain about it. The ads were found to not violate any laws or statutes. The kid's t-shirt falls under the same code.
I hope some other student take up this free speech cause and start selling T-Shirts that have provocative statements on them.
"Live is Wasted With Jesus" [A picture of Jesus with a doobie would be appropriate]
"Believing in Jesus is like Believing in the Tooth Fairy" [I think adding a fairy wand and wings to a picture of Jesus would be nice]
"Jesus is a Myth"
I kind of just like the slogan and I am sure there are many students who could honestly claim they believe in that concept. Maybe they could donate the funds to a center for recovering Xian's. Someplace they could go to unlearn their superiority complex.
It's not about limiting speech, it's about not tolerating attacks on other students. What about a t-shirt with a big ole swaztica on the front, or one that says homosexuality is a waste of one's life? Why is it so difficult for you to understand the distinction between a personal statement of faith that minds it's own business that no one should care about, and a personal statement of faith that attacks someone else in the process?
That would be just in reaction to the original offense, something religions have been doing to one another for centuries. These people thrive on the martyrdom complex.
I did not know that the TTC was considered a student under the Nova Scotia Education Act and subject to the same statutory requirements. Seems to me this young student is in contravention of 24(1)(d) and (e). My T-Shirts above where meant as sarcasm because I think that people who are deluded enough to believe in god should not be faced with this kind of in your face disrespect of their beliefs no matter how deluded. Respect is a two way street and in a public school that respect must go both ways. His T-Shirt is disrespectful of other students and his refusal to acknowledge the discipline system is confrontational.
http://nslegislature.ca/legc/statutes/eductn.htm
I love it when babblers are supporting the coercive power of the state.
I don't want my grandchildren going to schools where other kids are allowed to wear "belief" T-Shirts. How about "Homosexuals are Immoral" is that okay by you? It is as prominent an Xian belief as the BS about the one way to "heaven" is through Jesus.
Your hypothetical shirt would be hate speech. I support any child wearing a shirt proclaiming their religion is the only correct one just like I would support a child wearing a shirt advocating for their political party as being the only correct one.
It's either that, or we could let anarchists mediate the problem.
The T-Shirt he was wearing did not just affirm his positive belief. It specifically downgrades anyone's non-christian experience. A T-Shirt saying "Jesus is my Saviour" is fine by me but one saying "Jesus is my Saviour and Non-Believers are going to Burn in Hell" is not okay in a public school setting.
"Life is wasted without Jesus"
How about "Jesus says Homsexuality is a Waste of Life."
Your example would follow under hate speech, the shirt he wore would not.
Of course it would and rightly so. That is because it specifies an identifiable group. While I don't think that his T-shirt meets that "hate" criteria it certainly does say that ALL non-Xians lead wasted lives. That is just full out disrespect for fellow classmates not an expression of faith. Respect for others is a good thing to enforce in a public school system. If he wants to spew that kind of hate towards all non believers he should pay the money and go to a private school.
I'd likewise support a student wearing a shirt saying "Life is wasted without socialism."
i really hate this idea that we have to protect each other from being offended. what the hell do i care if some religious person thinks i'm wasting my life? that's only their opinion, which doesn't really matter to me since it has zero impact on my life.
more offensive in this case is probably the odour eminating from a teenager wearing the same t shirt six days in a row. now THAT is truly offensive...
No shit.
The problem with banning "offensive" speech through the power of the state is that your speech may be deemed to be "offensive" and you will be muzzled.
Besides, what the hell is so "offensive" about this kid's t-shirt? If someone wears a shirt that says, "You will got to HELL if you don't believe in Christ [or follow Allah]," who gives a shit? As an atheist, I'd just laugh to myself at such moronic slogans. But "offensive"? No. Should it be banned? Absolutely not.
Oh, and as to that ad in the TTC?
Big. Fucking. Deal.
We better make sure that minarets and church steeples are not within view of public streets, either. My eyeballs might burn out of their sockets if I saw such sight out in the open and in public view.