babble-intro-img
babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.

HPV Vaccine should be free for everyone

Brachina
Offline
Joined: Feb 15 2012

 Its disgusting that the HPV vaccine isn't free for everyone in Ontario. Boys are discriminated against as are older people, it only free for young girls, boys need not apply, even though it causes all kinds of different cancers in men, throat cancer, penile Cancer and in the case of gay men anal cancer (which also makes this homophobic).

 Free HPV vaccines for everyone! People are dying for fuck sakes!


Comments

onlinediscountanvils
Offline
Joined: Jun 7 2012

Free and effective vaccines for everyone! People are dying for fuck sakes!

How The Vaccine Failed To Protect Me As a Black Woman

A recent study from Duke University’s School of Medicine found that the available HPV vaccines, Gardasil and Cervarix, don’t prevent the HPV infections common in black women. 


Timebandit
Offline
Joined: Sep 25 2001

I agree!  We should be routinely vaccinating boys as well as girls.  Not only are boys and men affected by HPV, I think it's unfair that the burden of killing off the virus should fall to the girls. 

I also saw in passing that some strains of HPV are not included in the vaccine and that these strains are more prevalent with some POC.  I'd like to see a more comprehensive vaccine as well.

ETA:  Cross posted with oda!  That's the article!  Thanks for posting it.


Brachina
Offline
Joined: Feb 15 2012

 I would like to see the vaccine improved as well, no one should be excluded including on the basis of strain of HPV.


Timebandit
Offline
Joined: Sep 25 2001

Apparently there is a new, more comprehensive vaccine in the works:

www.cancernetwork.com%2Fcervical-cancer%2Fnew-hpv-vaccine-could-prevent-...

Quote:

In addition to subtypes 16, 18, 6, and 11, the new vaccine would also protect against HPV subtypes 31, 33, 45, 52, and 58. According to the International Agency for Research on Cancer, the list of HPV types that cause cancer has been expanded to include types 31, 33, 35, 39, 45, 51, 52, 56, 58, and 59.

According to Joura, these nine HPV subtypes are responsible for about 85% of precancerous cervical lesions, both cervical intraepithelial neoplasia (CIN), and adenocarcinoma in situ.

“If nine-valent HPV vaccination programs are effectively implemented, the majority of these lesions could be prevented,” said Joura in a statement.


Unionist
Offline
Joined: Dec 11 2005

The Star is going through some public self-flagellation these days. They're acting responsibly, I think, even though it's impossible to undo 100% of the damage when people read a MSM headline saying that Gardasil has a "dark side".

Here's the original stupid alarmist anti-scientific front-page story - I've included the original pre-censored big banner headline:

A wonder drug's dark side

And after a flood of emails and protests from the scientific/medical community, lots of backtracking - including this fairly fearless op-ed from the Star's own "Public Editor" (worth reading):

Public editor criticizes the Star's Gardasil story

Both publisher John Cruickshank and editor Michael Cooke have pronounced public mea culpas, though she (public editor Kathy English) clearly says they didn't go far enough.


jerrym
Offline
Joined: May 30 2009

Two boys have started a protest campaign in New Westminster against the failure of the BC Liberal government to provide free vaccines against HPV to males. My own son also felt he was being discriminated when he was not given the vaccine in grade 6 three years ago. This year I wrote on the vaccination parent approval form (for other vaccinations) for grade 9 students that these vaccines should be provided free to boys as well. The school nurse who gave this year's vaccinations wrote back that she agreed with me. It is interesting that PEI and Alberta are now giving HPV vaccinations to boys and Nova Scotia is considering it (see article). 

Quote:

Girls-only vaccinations unfair, say New Westminster sixth graders

NEW WEST RECORD 
OCTOBER 1, 2014 10:37 AM

HPV, Nelson and Elliot Royt 

New Westminster sixth graders Nelson and Elliot Roy want the same free protection against the cancer-causing human papilloma virus (HPV) as the girls at their school.   ...

Two New Westminster middle school boys don’t think it’s fair they’re not getting the same free protection against the cancer-causing human papilloma virus (HPV) as the girls at their school.

Twin brothers Elliot and Nelson Roy were handed notices last week about upcoming vaccinations for Grade 6 students at their school ...

The two 11-year-olds noticed the HPV vaccine was being offered to girls only.

Most of their male classmates didn’t make much of it, they said, and others thought boys couldn’t get the virus, but the Roy brothers knew better because they had watched a documentary on the subject a short time before.

“It showed how deadly these sicknesses can be,” Elliot told The Record. “I went to sleep that night kind of thinking, ‘Why are we not getting this? This is a life-saving vaccine.’”

Nelson agreed.

“We heard what it could do to people and apparently how the vaccine should be taken around 12 or 11,” he said, “so then when the vaccinations at our school came up and it said that only girls could, we were a bit upset about it.”

Their dad, Michel, encouraged them to write a letter to the editor.

In it, they argued boys should get free vaccinations because they are at the same risk as girls for getting the disease and passing it on.

“It is a life-threatening virus as it can produce many forms of cancer,” states the letter. “We have heard that the vaccine is available for free for boys in P.E.I. and Alberta, so we do not understand why boys cannot get it for free as part of our Grade 6 immunizations.”

Two types of HPV cause 70 per cent of cervical cancers in women, according to the Immunize B.C. website. In men, the virus is associated with cancers of the mouth, nose, throat, anus and penis.

B.C. has offered a free HPV vaccination program for girls in grades 6 and 9 since 2008.

P.E.I. was the first province to extend their program to boys; Alberta has followed suit this fall, and Nova Scotia is reportedly considering the move.

B.C. is not, even though the Canadian Cancer Society recommends males between the ages of nine and 26 be immunized and that HPV vaccines should be “available and affordable to Canadians.”

“At this time, B.C. is not covering HPV vaccination for males,” reads an email statement to The Record from the Health Ministry. “The cost of such a program is a factor in this decision. When making decisions about what vaccines to cover under the province’s vaccination program, the ministry looks at both cost-effectiveness and potential benefits, keeping in mind B.C.’s specific circumstances.”

That explanation doesn’t sit right with New West’s Roy brothers.

“I don’t find that very fair because then why should the girls get it if the boys can’t,” Nelson said. “If it is too expensive, then why can’t everyone just pay the same?”

The family now faces a total cost of about $1,000 for the boys to get the shots through their family doctor.

“Our family’s been touched by cancer a couple of times, so we take it very seriously,” Michel said.

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/football/super-bowl/Gino+Odjick+gets+...

 

 


jerrym
Offline
Joined: May 30 2009

Interestingly enough, the BC Liberal government's own Health Authority website discusses the potential risks associated with HPV infection in males. Despite its association with anal cancers, and cancers of the mouth and penis, the BC Liberals continue to refuse providing funding for vaccinations for males. Part of the reason for the failure to provide males with the vaccine coud well be because one of the most at risk groups is male homosexuals who engage in anal sex - in other words a case of discrimination against homosexuals. 

The fact that it costs about $500 to obtain privately means that this also involves discrimination against the poor and those without private medical plans that cover such vaccinations.  (I have highligted some of the key points in the quote below).

Quote:

Human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine and malesHuman papillomavirus (HPV) infection in males

  • HPV in males is associated with the development of genital warts on the penis and in the genital area.
  • HPV infection is associated with the development of up to:
    • 90% of anal cancers (more common among men who have sex with men),
    • 40 to 50% of cancers of the penis,
    • 10 to 20% of cancers of the mouth, head, and neck.

Which HPV vaccine is approved for males?

  • The HPV vaccine that is approved in Canada for use in males is the Gardasil® (HPV4) vaccine. 
  • The HPV4 vaccine is recommended for males 9 to 26 years of age and males 27 years of age and older who have sex with males. 
  • The HPV4 vaccine protects against infection from HPV types 6, 11, 16, 18.
  • The vaccine is given in 3 doses over 6 months.
  • The HPV4 vaccine is not publicly funded for males in British Columbia. It can be purchased at most travel clinics and pharmacies and at some sexual health clinics. The cost of the vaccine is about $500 for the three doses.  Some health insurance plans cover the cost of the vaccine. 

HPV vaccine effectiveness in males

  • In males who have never been infected with HPV, the HPV4 vaccine prevents about 85% of cases of anal cancer caused by HPV types 16 and 18.  The vaccine also prevents about 90% of cases of genital warts caused by HPV types 6 and 11.
  • The HPV vaccine is most effective when given before a person's first sexual contact; however, people who are sexually active may still benefit from the vaccine. The vaccine protects against new HPV infections; it does not treat or cure existing infections.

http://www.immunizebc.ca/diseases-vaccinations/hpv/men

 


jerrym
Offline
Joined: May 30 2009

Here is a summary of the current situation with regard to HPV vaccination across Canada. It is time to demand that males also receive the HFV vaccine.

 

Quote:
HPV vaccination programs by province / territory

  • Alberta
    Offered to girls and boys in Grade 5.
  • British Columbia
    Offered to girls in Grades 6.
  • Manitoba
    Offered to girls in Grade 6 and girls who missed the vaccine in Grade 6 born on or after January 1, 1997.
  • Newfoundland and Labrador
    Offered to Grade 6 girls.
  • New Brunswick
    Offered to girls in Grade 7. 
  • Nova Scotia   
    Offered to girls in Grade 7.
  • Ontario 
    Offered to girls in Grade 8. Since September 2012, girls in Grades 9–12 who didn't receive or didn't complete the three-dose HPV immunization in Grade 8 can now receive the vaccine free of charge, until the end of Grade 12. If you missed some or all of your doses of HPV vaccine in Grade 8, contact your local Public Health Unit to find out how you can catch-up.
  • Prince Edward Island            
    Offered to girls and boys in Grade 6.
  • Quebec 
    The province offers the vaccine for free to girls and women aged 9 to 17. Schools only offer HPV vaccination to Quebec girls in Grade 4 and 9, but parents whose daughters fall between those grades can request to have them vaccinated by submitting parental consent forms. Girls over 14 years of age can request HPV vaccination themselves. Girls in aboriginal communities aged 9 to 17 can also access free HPV vaccination.
  • Saskatchewan 
    Offered to girls in Grade 6.
  • Yukon
    Offered to girls in Grade 6. Catch-up program - Grades 7 and 8.
  • Northwest Territories 
    Offered to girls in Grade 4. Catch-up program - Grade 9 (2012-2014).
  • Nunavut
    Offered to girls in Grade 6.

 

http://www.hpvinfo.ca/teens/hpv-vaccination/hpv-immunization-strategies-...

 


Mr. Magoo
Offline
Joined: Dec 13 2002

If all the girls are immunized then "herd immunity" should protect all the boys too, shou...

Oh, wait.  What if not all boys are heterosexual.  Nevermind.


Sineed
Offline
Joined: Dec 4 2005

Great take-down of the Toronto Star article by Dr. Gorski, in which he explains how adverse reaction reporting databases are misused by anti-vaxxers:

Quote:

Misusing VAERS and the Health Canada database

One thing that David Bruser and Jesse McLean did that American reporters frequently do is to misunderstand the purpose of an open adverse event reporting database. In the US, we have the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS). Designed as a “canary in the coalmine”-type early warning system designed to pick up adverse events early, it’s a database to which anyone can contribute a suspected vaccine adverse event. It is not authoritative, and the adverse events are not generally verified. Indeed, as has been reported before, one pro-vaccine blogger, Dr. Jim Laidler, reported that the influenza vaccine turned him into the Incredible Hulk. True, the VAERS staff did contact this blogger and ask him about it, but, as he noted, if he had refused to remove the entry, it would still be there. Another pro-vaccine blogger, Kevin Leitch, verified that VAERS lets you enter basically anything by reporting that a vaccine had turned his daughter into Wonder Woman. Not surprisingly, antivaccine lawyers have made the database almost worthless as a source of information over the incidence of adverse events due to vaccines by encouraging their clients to enter all sorts of reports, in particular reports claiming that vaccines caused autism.

Other than the usual barriers to vaccine uptake, Gardasil also suffers the burden of being a vaccine against a sexually-transmitted disease that can cause cancer. And like Jerry notes, if there's a connection to gay sex, there's homophobia too.

 


Timebandit
Offline
Joined: Sep 25 2001
My ultra-Xtian cousin in law is lobbying against sex ed in school - want to bet her daughters don't get gardasil shots when they're offered? We should be giving everyone the shots to ensure herd immunity and because there are idiots who equate morality with virginity.

MegB
Offline
Joined: Nov 28 2001

Because this issue has broader national implications and it's health-related, I've moved it from the Ontario forum to Body and Soul. Thank you Jerry.


Sineed
Offline
Joined: Dec 4 2005

Dr. Gorski now reports that Heather Mallick has blocked him on Twitter. I'm disappointed in Heather Mallick. When did she become such a crackpot?


Unionist
Offline
Joined: Dec 11 2005

Sineed wrote:

Dr. Gorski now reports that Heather Mallick has blocked him on Twitter. I'm disappointed in Heather Mallick. When did she become such a crackpot?

https://twitter.com/DrJenGunter/status/564081118320660480

 


jerrym
Offline
Joined: May 30 2009

More evidence is piling up in support of HPV vaccination for boys. While I'm no big fan of Con MP Peter Kent, congratulations to him for raising this issue after having developed HPV-related cancer (see bottom part of this article). 

Quote:

Vaccinating boys against the human papillomavirus (HPV) might be cost effective over their lifetimes to prevent a type of throat and mouth cancer, new Canadian modelling suggests.

Dr. Lillian Siu, a senior medical oncologist at the Princess Margaret Cancer Centre in Toronto, has treated oropharyngeal cancer that starts at the back of the throat and mouth for about 18 years, and has seen the incidence of the disease rise. ...

The HPV vaccine is covered for girls to prevent cervical cancer. The vaccine also reduces anal cancer in both sexes as well as some cancers of the penis and oropharyngeal cancer. 

"We would see now about 80 per cent of our oropharyngeal cancer patients are what we call HPV positive," said Siu. "It is a morbid disease so I think we have to spend some time thinking about how to prevent it."

The HPV vaccine is covered by provincial medicare plans for girls to prevent cervical cancer. The vaccine also reduces anal cancer in both genders as well as some cancers of the penis and oropharyngeal cancer, which also involves the tonsils and base of the tongue. ...

To that end, Siu and her team created a model to compare the potential cost savings of vaccinating a theoretical group of about 190,000 boys at age 12 followed over their lifetime using factors such as vaccine cost, vaccine effectiveness, costs of cancer treatment and how the quality of life of cancer patients diminishes.

"We don't know how to predict who will get the disease and anyone who is sexually active is at risk of developing such a cancer," Siu said.

In Monday's online issue of the journal Cancer, Siu and her coauthors concluded the vaccine could potentially save between $8 million and $28 million over the boys' lifetimes, or up to nearly $42 per person per year, compared with no vaccine. ...

Siu isn't advocating for the vaccine to be offered free to boys until more research is done. "I think if we can raise the awareness to start looking at this question in greater depth, we've achieved our goal." ...

Conservative MP Peter Kent became an advocate for HPV vaccination after his diagnosis in 2013.

"It was my first confrontation with mortality and I thought, well, here we go," Kent recalled. "The diagnosis was Stage 4 HPV-related cancer, which is a fairly ominous diagnosis."

Kent had seven weeks of radiation treatment and three rounds of chemotherapy.

"I don't want any youngster today to face what I did, to experience what I did, 10 or 20 or 30 or 40 years down the road because it is avoidable and I think that governments have to face their responsibility and make that investment in the future."

Three doses of the vaccine cost about $500. B.C. and Quebec use two doses for girls. Currently, Alberta and Prince Edward Island cover the cost for boys. Nova Scotia's new budget includes plans to add HPV vaccines for boys in Grade 7 in the fall.  ...

Conservative MP Peter Kent became an advocate for HPV vaccination after his diagnosis in 2013.

"It was my first confrontation with mortality and I thought, well, here we go," Kent recalled. "The diagnosis was Stage 4 HPV-related cancer, which is a fairly ominous diagnosis."

Kent had seven weeks of radiation treatment and three rounds of chemotherapy.

"I don't want any youngster today to face what I did, to experience what I did, 10 or 20 or 30 or 40 years down the road because it is avoidable and I think that governments have to face their responsibility and make that investment in the future."

Three doses of the vaccine cost about $500. B.C. and Quebec use two doses for girls. Currently, Alberta and Prince Edward Island cover the cost for boys. Nova Scotia's new budget includes plans to add HPV vaccines for boys in Grade 7 in the fall.  ...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/hpv-vaccine-for-boys-may-prevent-cancer-an...

 

 

 


jerrym
Offline
Joined: May 30 2009

Nova Scotia has become the third province to provide HPV vaccines for boy in a grooundbreaking move, according to the Canadian Cancer Society.

ETA: The impetus for this seems to be another case of a politician getting the disease (in this case NDP Nova Scotia MLA and Speaker Gordie Gosse as the article points out) stimulating government action.

I would prefer that our politicians act on scientific evidence rather than waiting until one of their own has a particular problem, but at least this does provide boys with protection from HPV in Nova Scotia and may push other provinces to do the same. It even makes financial sense, as it saves health care costs long-term as evidence now suggests, but how often do politicians (or to be fair voters) look at things long-term?

Quote:

The Nova Scotia government's decision to provide the HPV vaccine to Grade 7 boys in the province is being welcomed by the Canadian Cancer Society, which calls the move "groundbreaking."

"By having an actual vaccine to protect against these cancers, it's changing the face of cancer 10, 20, 30 years down the line for these boys and girls," said Kelly Cull, a spokeswoman for the Nova Scotia division of the Canadian Cancer Society.

The provincial government included $492,000 in its budget last week to cover the cost of immunizing all Grade 7 boys.

It has provided the human papillomavirus vaccine to girls since 2007. The cost last year was $693,000.

All provinces provide it to females, but Nova Scotia is only the third province — behind P.E.I. and Alberta — to provide the vaccine to boys.

In Monday's online issue of the journal Cancer, a study concluded the vaccine for boys may potentially save between $8 million and $28 million a year over the boys' lifetimes, or up to nearly $42 per person per year in costs.

In the fall, Nova Scotia politician Gordie Gosse put a human face to HPV and men when he disclosed that his doctor told him his throat cancer was caused by the virus. Gosse, who resigned earlier this month, called on the province to make sure boys gets the same vaccine as girls. ...

The national Advisory Committee on Immunization recommended in 2012 that males between the ages of nine and 26 be immunized. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/hpv-vaccine-for-nova-scotia-bo...

 

 

 

 



jerrym
Offline
Joined: May 30 2009

The US CDC (Centre for Disease Control and Prevention). which is "the leading national public health institute of the United States" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centers_for_Disease_Control_and_Prevention) now recommends that boys, and not just girls, should get the HPV vaccine.

Its time to make it free for boys and girls in all provinces.

Quote:

HPV Vaccine is Recommended for Boys 

HPV vaccine can prevent certain cancers and other diseases in men caused by human papillomavirus (HPV). CDC recommends that you get your boys and girls vaccinated at 11 or 12 to prevent cancers caused by HPV. ...

Cases of anal cancer and cancers of the mouth/throat are also on the rise. In fact, if current trends continue, the annual number of cancers of the mouth/throat attributed to HPV is expected to surpass the annual number of cervical cancers by 2020. ...

Why does my son need this at 11 or 12 years old?

HPV vaccine is recommended at ages 11-12 for two reasons:

  1. HPV vaccine produces the highest immune response at this age.
  2. HPV vaccine must be given before exposure for it to be effective in preventing cancers and other diseases caused by HPV.

    http://www.cdc.gov/features/HPVVaccineBoys/

     

     

     

     


    jerrym
    Offline
    Joined: May 30 2009

    The Canadian Cancer Society also recommends HPV vaccination for boys, as well as girls.

    Quote:

    Only Gardasil is approved for boys and young men to prevent anal cancer, its precancerous condition and anogenital warts. The vaccine is most effective when given to males before they become sexually active. NACI recommends that Gardasil be used for:

    • males between 9 and 26 years of age
    • males 9 years of age and older who have sex with other males 

    There is some evidence that Gardasil may also prevent penile, perianal and perineal precancerous conditions (intraepithelial neoplasias) and their associated cancers, although it is currently not approved for this use.

    Research is being done to see if vaccinating boys and young men before they become sexually active can prevent them from passing on HPV to females. In turn, this could help reduce cervical cancer risk in women.

    http://www.cancer.ca/en/cancer-information/cancer-101/what-is-a-risk-fac...

     

    The article also discusses the effectiveness of the three different kinds of HPV vaccine (Gardasil, Cervarix, and Gardasil 9) that can cause cancer.

    Quote:

    Gardasil

    Gardasil was the first HPV vaccine approved in Canada. It is a quadrivalent vaccine that protects against 4 different HPV types: HPV- 6, HPV-11, HPV-16 and HPV-18.

     Gardasil helps protect females between 9 and 45 years of age against:

    • precancerous conditions of the cervix, vagina and vulva
    • cervical, vaginal and vulvar cancer

     In females and males between 9 and 26 years of age, Gardasil also helps prevent:

    • precancerous conditions of the anus (anal epithelial neoplasia or AIN)
    • anal cancer

     Gardasil also helps protect females (9–45 years of age) and males (9–26 years of age) against anogenital warts.

     

    Cervarix

    Cervarix is a bivalent vaccine that protects against 2 high-risk HPV types: HPV-16 and HPV-18.

    Cervarix helps protects females between 10 and 25 years of age against:

    • precancerous conditions of the cervix
    • cervical cancer

    Cervarix does not protect against genital warts.

     

    Gardasil 9

    Gardasil 9 is the newest HPV vaccine approved in Canada. It protects against 9 different HPV types:

    • HPV- 6
    • HPV-11
    • HPV-16
    • HPV-18
    • HPV-31
    • HPV-33
    • HPV-45
    • HPV-52
    • HPV-58

     

    Gardasil 9 helps protect females between 9 and 45 years of age against:

    • precancerous conditions of the cervix, vagina and vulva
    • cervical, vaginal and vulvar cancer

    In females and males between 9 and 26 years of age, Gardasil 9 also helps prevent:

    • precancerous conditions of the anus (anal epithelial neoplasia or AIN)
    • anal cancer

    Gardasil 9 also helps protect females (9–45 years of age) and males (9–26 years of age) against anogenital warts.

     

     

     


    jas
    Offline
    Joined: Jun 6 2005

    HPV clears up mostly on its own. Last thing we need is to have our health budgets hijacked by more silly pandemic scares.

    HPV Hysteria Could Have Harmful Side Effects

    HPV hysteria and misconceptions


    jas
    Offline
    Joined: Jun 6 2005
    Sineed
    Offline
    Joined: Dec 4 2005

    Robert Kennedy JR is a dangerous and irrational antivaccine ideologue who uses his famous name a la Jenny McCarthy to promote the thoroughly discredited notion that the MMR causes autism despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/07/robert_...

    Quote:
    To recap, Kennedy accuses scientists of fraud, which is pretty much the worst thing you can say about a scientist. He distorts their statements. He says they should be thrown in jail. He uses his powerful name to besmirch theirs. That name, the reason he has power and fame, is inherited from a family dedicated to public service. He now uses the Kennedy name to accuse employees of government agencies charged with protecting human health - some of the best public servants this country has - of engaging in a massive conspiracy to cause brain damage in children

    Booyah.

    In which he apologizes for making Holocaust analogies in reference to children with autism that he links to vaccines:

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/13/robert-kennedy-apologises...

    The objection to Gardasil was originally rooted in religious predjudice against women's sexuality. Now that boys are involved, by sheer coincidence the same people object, though this time, their motivation is homophobia. After all, if you are a gay guy or a woman, cancer is God's punishment for having sex.

    It's like the early days of AIDS all over again.


    jas
    Offline
    Joined: Jun 6 2005

    Again, trying to discredit the messengers rather than addressing the facts.

    Inoculating children for potential and mostly harmless STDs 5 - 10 years before they're even going to be sexually active is, at best, fearmongering in the service of pharmaceutical profits, and at worst, f***ing creepy.


    jas
    Offline
    Joined: Jun 6 2005

    And how's that swine flu pandemic workin' for ya?


    Sineed
    Offline
    Joined: Dec 4 2005

    jas wrote:

    Again, trying to discredit the messengers rather than addressing the facts.

    Robert Kennedy JR says that there is a link between MMR and autism. This link has been thoroughly discredited. What else is there to say?

    As for the swine flu, the public health authorities were damned if they did and damned if they didn't. As it turned out, the swine flu didn't turn out to be the dangerous world-wide pandemic that was originally predicted (on the basis of flawed data from Mexico, but that's another story). If on the other hand it did turn out to have been a world-wide pandemic on the level of 1918/19, public health authorities would have been equally excoriated for an under-reaction. It's a public relations battle that they can't win.


    jas
    Offline
    Joined: Jun 6 2005

    Sineed wrote:
    As for the swine flu, the public health authorities were damned if they did and damned if they didn't. As it turned out, the swine flu didn't turn out to be the dangerous world-wide pandemic that was originally predicted (on the basis of flawed data from Mexico, but that's another story). If on the other hand it did turn out to have been a world-wide pandemic on the level of 1918/19, public health authorities would have been equally excoriated for an under-reaction. It's a public relations battle that they can't win.

    Along with the bird flu, SARS and West Nile virus pandemics. That's a whole lot of error - often in favour of the pharmaceutical industry.

    Meanwhile Fukushima continues to spew radioactivity into the Pacific Ocean, and industrial activities are increasingly deregulated, creating serious pollution and long term public health impacts. Governments like Harper's are cutting science funding, silencing or firing scientists and appointing unqualified corporate yes-men and -women into policy positions.

    But I'm supposed to care about and support a massive, over-reactive pharmaceutical profits campaign to maybe prevent a few cases of cancer that may or may not be linked to a minor STD? 

    Sorry, but we have a credibility problem here.


    Mr. Magoo
    Offline
    Joined: Dec 13 2002

    Quote:
    It's a public relations battle that they can't win.

    It's an unfortunate Achilles' Heel of science that by its own rules, it admits when it got something wrong.  Anti-science cranks -- who are evidently unable to do the same -- can just jump all over it.


    jerrym
    Offline
    Joined: May 30 2009

    Unfortunately, the anti-vaccination crowd seems to be having some success. However, it is interesting that in the two communities with the highest proportion of immigrants from formerly Third World countries (Richmond where Chinese predominate and South Vancouver which is many Indian immigrants) and therefore have much more personal knowledge of the ravages that infectious diseases can create, one finds the highest vaccination rates in BC. 

     

    Quote:

    New data from Vancouver Coastal Health shows vaccination rates in the health region are too low.

    It’s one of the hottest issues of debate – should you vaccinate your kids?

    It looks like that may be having an impact.

    One in four  kids entering kindergarten in the health region don’t have up-to-date immunizations, and a third of parents are choosing not to vaccinate their daughters in Grade 6 against Human Papillomavirus.

    The lowest up-to-date vaccination rate for children entering kindergarten in the region is in Powell River at 54%, followed by  West Vancouver, at 57%.

    The highest is Richmond and South Vancouver in 83%.

    http://www.cknw.com/2015/04/30/vaccination-rates-too-low-vancouver-coast...

     

     


    Sineed
    Offline
    Joined: Dec 4 2005

    Why vaccination refusal is a white privilege problem

    http://www.xojane.com/issues/vaccination-refusal-white-privilege

    Basically, there are two groups of undervaccinated or unvaccinated people in America: poor people who have trouble accessing health care, and people whose average annual family income is north of $75,000. When rich people don't vaccinate their kids, this creates pockets of disease vulnerability. And when outbreaks occur, the kids who are more likely to suffer serious complications are poor and undernourished.

    Quote:

    Instead of vaccinations, free riders’ parents claim other means of keeping their kids healthy. As Public Health professor ​Jennifer Reich argues​, parents of non-vaccinated children believe breastfeeding, superior nutrition, and controlled environments (i.e., not daycare) keep disease at bay. 

    Unfortunately for most kids, these are all benefits of privilege.

    ...

    Privileged white people refuse the vaccines in the name of individual freedom. 

    And public health suffers; this especially affects the lives of the poor. This will, of course, provoke unmitigated outrage from the anti-vaccination community as a whole. 

    Is the anti-vax movement itself racist? No. But it’s buttressed by class and race privilege.


    jerrym
    Offline
    Joined: May 30 2009

    Sineed wrote:

    Why vaccination refusal is a white privilege problem

    http://www.xojane.com/issues/vaccination-refusal-white-privilege

    Basically, there are two groups of undervaccinated or unvaccinated people in America: poor people who have trouble accessing health care, and people whose average annual family income is north of $75,000. When rich people don't vaccinate their kids, this creates pockets of disease vulnerability. And when outbreaks occur, the kids who are more likely to suffer serious complications are poor and undernourished.

    While I do acknowledge what you are saying, I do think cultural factors also play an important role. My wife grew up in the Philippines. Having seen what infectious disease can do there, she can not comprehend why anyone would not get at least the free vaccinations, even though we now have a family income above $75,000.

    My father's ancestors came to Canada on the "coffin ships" during the Irish famine where many families died from infectious diseases. 

    My mother was born in Ireland. On her side, my great-great grandmother was one of the few survivors of the Famine village Cill Rialaig. My grandmother, after her father and the family donkey, as the oldest and almost an adult had to hitch herself up to a donkey cart and pull it up a 300 foot hill, load it with peat, and bring it down every day during English rule or the family would have lost the farm and starved to death. On the farm, which is still owned by my cousin, you can still see the rubble of farmhouses from families that didn't make it. 

    My mother, told me of neighbouring lovers during her youth who went together for 20 years, waiting for their parents to die so they could marry and inherit the land. Otherwise, they were afraid that without land getting married and having children could end in death. 

    Both my parents lived through the Depression and WWII, so with this background it is not surprising to me that I did not marry until in my 40s and was financially secure. Despite marrying relatively young before the Irish Famine, the Irish had the highest rate of late marriage, bachelorhood, and spinsterhood in the world well into the 1960s, well over 100 years after the Irish Famine. 

    Quote:

    Similarly, Ireland's age of marriage in 1830 was 23.8 for women and 27.47 for men where they had once been 21 and 25, respectively, and only bout 10% of adults remained unmarried;[19] in 1840, they had respectively risen to 24.4 and 27.7;[20][21] in the decades after the Great Famine, the age of marriage had risen to 28-29 for women and 33 for men and as much as a third of Irishmen and a fourth of Irishwomen never married due to chronic economic problems that discouraged early marriage.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_European_marriage_pattern

     

    Quote:

    After the Famine, unlike before, it was customary for a couple to marry only when assured of adequate land—land, that is, sufficient to promise the support of a new family Before the Famine " adequacy " had been finely defined none had long to spend looking for his few acres But afterwards tenants (and landlords even more so) had lost their faith m tiny holdings And for reasons more com- pelling, if farms were to be made viable, they had also to be made larger. ...

    In the years immediately following the Famine, with the lesson that farms were too small graven on the mmd of its survivors, it is not unreasonable to imagine a family amicably calling a halt to subdivision, even at a sacnfice of some of its members Indeed, m these years, the disinherited may have felt that it was they, not their brothers, who were favoured , that all too soon the heir to Irish land might more conspiciously be the heir to Irish disaster.

    http://www.tara.tcd.ie/bitstream/handle/2262/4266/jssisivolxvixpart4_821...

     

    As to myself and my wife, I do not find it surprising that with these cultural references points, we highly value security, including that brought by vaccination. Even our children are very cautious about marriage and spending money, even though they have no personal knowledge of a below average income. Furthermore, both see vaccinations as providing an increased level of security in an insecure world.

    In other words, one's attitude towards issues, including vaccination, are coloured by many factors, not just current standards of living or race. Those that are cultural are often not stated by those involved, because it often involves long explanations of why one thinks the way one does to those without that cultural experience; and even then, there is no guarantee they will understand. 

     

     


    Comment viewing options

    Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
    Login or register to post comments