babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.
Mulcair Doesn't Rule Out F-35 Purchase
September 21, 2015 - 1:16pm
===
“An NDP government would start the process over, make sure we define what we need for our military, and then we go to the lowest conforming bidder that has the product that meets our needs,” Thomas Mulcair said today.
I'm SHOCKED. That is NOT the NDP. They should calling for an outright cancellation of this purchase.
As Jack Layton said in 2011
The Canadian military should concentrate on peacekeeping and not making war. And he said that means scrapping the $16-billion F-35 jet fighters deal along greater attention to Canada’s naval needs.
“We need a made-in-Canada defence plan that ensures our defence procurement needs match our domestic security and foreign policy objectives,” Layton said during an early morning election rally at the Fort Hill National Historic Site.
“The New Democrats’ defence priorities will focus our military resource on … defending and protecting Canadians, assisting people when disaster strikes at home or abroad and providing support for peacekeeping and peace building around the world,” he said.
You guys can spin this all you want, the old NDP would never leave open the door to buy these massive fire jets.
As Jack Layton said on 2011
“For five years Stephen Harper has failed to produce the ships we need to patrol the world’s longest shoreline. Canada’s supply ships have reached the end of their operation lives. Instead of focusing on F-35 fighter jets, I’ll get the job done when it comes to building joint support ships for our naval forces,” he said.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2011/04/08/canadian_military_should_r...
More further proof the NDP is veering right, and abandoning the left. As Justin Trudeau just poached Jack Layton's Military policy, verbatim.
Great deflect bagkitty, but you cannot defend the indefensible. Mulcair should be advocating outright cancellation like Layton did. And NOT leaving the door open to purchase the F-35.
Well, as a deflect, it is certain preferable to the old Hollywood trope of a short, sharp slap (although I must admit I was tempted). I would refer you to Lawrence Martin's column (August 25th) over in the Globe. The focus on a specific program (like the F-35s) is certainly eye-catching, but it doesn't address the underlying program with procurement polices as exemplified by previous Conservate and Liberal administrations.
x
BagKitty Mulcair is not calling for outright cancellation. But leaving the door open to accept other bids.
“An NDP government would start the process over, make sure we define what we need for our military, and then we go to the lowest conforming bidder that has the product that meets our needs,” Thomas Mulcair said today.
http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/trudeau-harper-mulcair-battle-ove...
And
"I’m not saying anything should be off the table (F-35)"
Of course we should be looking at other options but if the F-35 can meet those criteria, that’s too but you have to say what they are.
http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/mulcair-on-the-f-35/
F-35 Fighter Jet More Problematic and Costly Than Ever Imagined - Air Force Secretary
https://www.rt.com/usa/311126-f-35-problems-extremely-expensive/
"The F-35, made by Lockheed Martin Corp, is the most expensive US weapons system ever, at nearly $400 billion for a planned fleet of over 2,400 aircraft.
The F-35's shortcomings, involve a series of hardware malfunctions and software glitches that have set the program back more than three years and pushed it some $200 billion over its initial budget, according to CNN. In a mock dog-fight in January, the F-35 failed to turn quickly enough to engage an F-16, the plane it is supposed to replace.
Other problems have included engines catching fire, as well as unreliable engine performance in general. The software system intended to identify maintenance issues was found to give false-positive readings 80 percent of the time."
hey bagkitty loved your poop scoop link
Another deflection to deivert attention away from the NDP stance to be pro-F-35. WOW and I thought both of you supported peacekeeping and not war. My mistake. Especially now with the NDP pro-F-35 stance. Who would have thought the NDP would be so pro-military jet.
Mulcair said CRYSTAL CLEAR this morning
“An NDP government would start the process over, make sure we define what we need for our military, and then we go to the lowest conforming bidder that has the product that meets our needs,” Thomas Mulcair said today.
He is NOT abandoning anything. But leaving the door open to purchase F-35.
There is no dispute no matter how many ways you try to deflect or divert attention.
The NDP is now pro-F-35. PERIOD.
terry your article you linked to macleans really doesn't support your contentions.
and how many times now have you been asked not to fabricate shit? yet you leave it dropped all over the place here and bagkitty and others have to clean it up or risk ecoli poisoning.
If you READ the title of the thread "Mulcair Doesn't Rule Out F-35 Purchase" How is that fabricating?
The article bagkitty provided is from August. We are in September. Things have changed.
Mulcair said CRYSTAL CLEAR this morning
“An NDP government would start the process over, make sure we define what we need for our military, and then we go to the lowest conforming bidder that has the product that meets our needs,” Thomas Mulcair said today.
As Macleans says "He didn’t rule out purchasing the F-35." How is that misleading? It is the same as the title of this thread?
http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/trudeau-harper-mulcair-battle-ove...
He is NOT abandoning anything. But leaving the door open to purchase F-35. PERIOD
He should cancel the F-35 purchase. That was NDP policy in 2011.
*pulls rubber gloves and boots on to avoid being contaminated by the fabricated shit being dropped everywhere
from the Liberal war room's linked Maclean's article being cut short everywhere in their fabrications....
So not necessarily F-35s, but F-35s if necessary.
Once again NDP communications being stupid and cute.
In its place, the Liberals said they would launch an "open and transparent competition" to buy more affordable planes to replace Canada's aging CF-18 jets. Trudeau said the money saved by scrapping the F-35 procurement would go primarily to increasing spending on the Royal Canadian Navy.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-trudeau-scrap-f35-h...
what the NDP is doing is screasming at the Liberals even when they articulate the same policy the NDP advocates or one so close that the over-the-top reaction from the NDP is embarassing.
This is how the NDP is blowing this election.
The facts: Both the NDP and Liberals are promising to scrap the F-35 and replace them with a better option.
Undecided voters are becoming disgusted wit this kind of tactic from the NDP.
The Liberals are copying a number of NDP positions in their run from the left. The correct response form the NDP should be to welcome them to the right position. Once in a while the NDP can quesiton if the Liberals can be trusted perhaps but to outright demonize and ridicule a position that is almost identical to the NDP position is stupid.
Sometime you can shut up and get out of the way as well. The Liberals and Conservatives are going to fight on this. There was no need to enter into this debate with a difficult-to-understand position. Harper was going to call Trudeau irresponsible. Why would Mulcair on this point when his position is hardly any different.
This is another indication that the NDP brain-trust is out of control and out of touch.
Is Mulcair trying to organize a Horwath type collapse to allow the Liberals to outflank him on the left?
This after that stupid poll communications.
This week the NDP has reverse Midas -- everything they touch turns to shit. Maybe they need to take a day off and come back less cutet, more direct and focusing on what matters. Calling Trudeau stupid on everyting -- even what the NDP base supports -- is a losing strategy.
If anyone is listening in the NDP HQ -- send me your address and I'll send you an alarm clock. Wake the F up.
This defeat the NDP is going to suffer on Oct. 19th will hurt badly becuase it is so absolutely unnecessary and totally self-inflicted.
***
And let's look at the language because it is so important. Trudeau says he would end the F-35 procurement program. Trudeau has not entirely ruled out F-35s in a new procurement program -- just the program which, as it stands, ought to be scrapped. No daylight between Trudeau's current position and Mulcair's.
But 2011 NDP policy was outright cancellation.
Everything that Sean in Ottawa has said I agree with 100% While NDP partisans are twisting themselves in a pretzel to try and defend this policy, it driving other left-leaning voters to the Liberals because of their outright cancellation of the F-35. Thomas Mulcair should of just echoed Trudeau stance. But to be different he left the door open for an F-35 purchase. Which is contrary to NDP policy to promote peacekeeping over military action.
No he should of said what Jack Layton said in 2011. Outright cancellation.
“The New Democrats’ defence priorities will focus our military resource on … defending and protecting Canadians, assisting people when disaster strikes at home or abroad and providing support for peacekeeping and peace building around the world,”
Jack Layton 2011
Actually my point is BOTH of them have left the door open and BOTH are calling for scrapping the procurement program as it is and starting over.
Calling someone who has the same position as you stupid is -- well -- stupid.
Trudeau said he was goinig to SCRAP F-35 fighter jet program. Mulcair is leaving the door open to purchase F-35.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-trudeau-scrap-f35-h...
imv you don't read Sean's posts to well terrytowel and in your haste your making claims Sean didn't say.
Of what Jack Layton said on 2011
"Instead of focusing on F-35 fighter jets, I’ll get the job done when it comes to building joint support ships for our naval forces,”.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2011/04/08/canadian_military_should_r...
quizzical & bagkitty you can joke all you want but if Mulcair doesn't be more FORCEFUL on this issue and advocate outright cancellation on the F-35, he will lose votes to those who oppose war.
I agree with terry. Canada should be peacekeepers not war mongers. We shouldn't be buying F-35 or any other war machines.
It's time to pull out of NATO and make Canada a neutral country.
EXACTLY. That has been the NDP position as it has been for DECADES. Yet we have Mulcair being open to purchasing F-35?