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“We don't have no vegetarians here”
November 21, 2008 - 7:48am
A clash between environmentalists and Inuit rights:
http://www.economist.com/world/americas/displayStory.cfm?story_id=126521...
By the way, with our new super-dooper board software, I don't know how to "do the URLs" like the old system...at least on my Mac...
P.S. Nice inflammatory thread title and opening post, Sven. Hopefully people will actually go to the article and read the quote in context. He was simply stating a fact, that there are no vegetarians in his community because not a lot of vegetation grows there, and animal meat is their main staple. And there was no "clash" - you make it sound like there was some sort of confrontation there.
There was no confrontation. The article was simply outlining a difference in opinion between Inuit hunters and scientists from the south about polar bear populations. There will probably be more of a "clash" in this thread (thanks to your sensationalistic opening post and title) than there is anywhere in that article or community.
Also: this is not "international news". This is northern news, so I'm putting this in the little-used regional forum that includes Nunavut.
Pond Inlet hunters to cull hundreds of narwhal whales
A significant difference of (mutually exclusive) opinions is the very definition of a conflict (or "confrontation"). The issue in my mind is that if the Inuit's are acting on their own land, then it's up to them how they manage their polar bear population and the scientists really have no say in the matter.
The reason I put this in International News is that this story relates not only to Canada but to Greenland as well.
Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!
Can I suggest, as a meat-avoider living in Alaska, that Sven's thread title be changed to "Vegetarians? What Vegetarians! We don't need no stinking vegetarians!"
________________________________________________________________________________________________ Our Demands Most Moderate are/ We Only Want The World! -James Connolly
So reaslly catchfire they are only culling 70 more than they usually do!
___________________________________________________________ "watching the tide roll away"
Gosh, they're first nations.
Let them hunt the species to extinction.
Their tradition of hunting with high-powered rifles and snowmobiles is far more important than the survival of the endangered polar bear. And who needs science to know how many should be killed? Let's just base it on how many Charlie Joe saw last week. That's much more accurate.
Sven, I'm very disappointed in you.
The Economist article, no surprise, deals in classic racist bullshit designed to enrage the average white citizen.
Racist signifiers include (bold added):
I don't have the time or the energy to deconstruct each of those above points, and how the reiteration of "white folks know everything" versus "traditional knowledge is useless" combined with "those people don't know how to govern themselves" is steeped in ignorance, racism, xenophobia and genocidal colonialist revisionist historicizing. Yes I just made up that last term.
For shame, Sven.
And this is priceless:
As if global warming, something that is the result of less than 100 years of advanced destructive out-of-control Western-dominated capitalism, can be compared in any way to the Inuit hunt. In a community of 1500 people. Really? REALLY?
That white Western scientists, and writers for the Economist, can turn this around and blame the Inuit is preposterous. Quite racist, obnoxious and delberately ignorant as well. To deliberately post something like this on babble almost borders on the definition of trolling. One could argue. Hmm.
For shame, Sven.
And of course, posting such a topic, in the manner and perspective in which it was posted, will serve to legitimize racist opinions and racist language such as above.
That this is considered legitimate progressive discourse is a whole bunch of things. For now I will just call it sad.
The shipments of "fresh" fruit and vegetables to such a far destination does not make then "fresh" and it costs a lot more to buy fruit and veggies on a remote reserve or location.
Sven, you often post what are anti-FN news and I'm not sure why this is of so much importance to you. And Keystone, the day you move to a remote reserve and understand what like is like there you have absolutely no idea what is going on. I guess they should still be hunting with spears?
"I guess they should still be hunting with spears? "
Oh man I have heard this and variations of this so many times, it is sickening.
Usually it is accompanied by the equally racist sentiment, that if they want their land back and to be self governing, then they have to give up all they have gained from white men.
Moreover, what is really troubling is setting up the false position that white men are so much more environmentally responsible than First Nations.
Meanwhile....species are going extinct at a huge rate under white man's rules.
Remind I've heard so many variations as well especially over Treaty Rights regarding hunting an other resource use. They always go something like, 'well when the treaties were signed there wasn't the technology (like high powered hunting rifles) bladdity blah ergo it's somehow unfair and that THEY should only use the stuff that was in use at the time of signing. My reply usually goes something along the lines of 'well last I checked there were two sides signing the treaties so sure I agree let's go back ---to be fair and all. That means, no chainsaws, no helicopters, no gas powered construction equipment, picks and shovels for mining, horse drawn and steam transport only, telegraph communication, no computeristed planning, no modern day engineering and industrial techniques and systems etc etc etc. It's only fair right?
...perhaps Sven and Keystone missed the point - the narwhal are as good as dead anyway.
A fact probably related to the white man's disruption of the climate.
yep, it is only fair ElizaQ, though no steam power.
The white exployers only used canoes and muskets after all.
And white people and other colonizers do not get food either, seeing as how they would have starved when they first came and were exploring if not for First Nations food.
Yeah steam is to modern now that I think about it. I actually think it would be kinda cool though to see lots of tall ships again in the harbors though.
Yeah food as well. Though I am generall adverse to the notion that plant themselves are owned by anyone the knowledge of the uses of plants particularly food is a good point. So sure to be fair if they should give up white man things and knowledge then we should do the same. So there goes corn and with that pretty much the foundation of our entire food system right now.
Corn and tomatoes, Eliza. As well as BBQ's.
...potatoes, too.
Not to mention chocolate, chilies (and the whole vegetable pepper family), and vanilla.
No that's wrong. Didn't you know that tomatoes can from Italy (spaghetti and pizza gosh durn it!!!) and potatoes Ireland and Idaho? ;) Least that's what I was told.
It's ironic really how those foodstuffs are now such staples of mainstream diet and now commonly their orgins are culturely associated with with places that are European. Most have no clue just how much the the typical NA diet is actually North and South American Native at it's roots.
Good additions LTJ. And I will add cranberries and turkey.
And I agree Eliza, most have no idea that they are eating FN's of the Americas, food stuffs.
Can you imagine the outrage that white males will have over having to get rid of their BBQ's?
LOL. Though I think that giving up ketchup would cause a societal melt down and cripes what about chocolate? There'd be riots in the streets. ;) :D
Potatoes are native to South America. They were imported to Ireland, but only a few varities, which is why they were so susceptible to disease. Hence, the potato famine.
I have very spotty internet access this weekend due to technical difficulties, and I don't even know if this post will make it.
So....
This thread, from it's inception, is fucking appalling. I add my agreement to Maysies words to Sven. After being around here as long as you have you should know better.
As for this:
KeyStone, had I seen that before Maysie you'd probably be looking at a disabled account right now. Your post is ignorant, racist, eurocentric crap. How do you think scientists from the south know where and how plentiful are the northern wildlife? Well among other things, they ask the peolpe who live there. I've been out on the ice, 15 - 20 km out into the Beaufort sea, and was looking for polar bears. It's no picnic out there. Could've been one 20 feet away from me and I'm not sure I would have seen it. Maybe if I ever get my scanner up and running I'll post pictures. These people with their high powered rifles and snowmobiles know what they're doing, and across the arctic, not that many bears are taken compared to the threats the species is under from environmental pressures. Like with the Beluga, if the Inuit/Inuvialuit and others have to take fewer, they'll take fewer. From my experience in the MacKenzie Delta, I can tell you that protecting endangered species is taken pretty seriously.
Regarding Charlie Joe BTW, the Joe family is from Aklavik, and as Dene, are unlikely to be hunting Polar Bear as part of any ancestral rights.
Anyway, this isn't the first thread to be saved by drifting into food. In the far north, my own observation was that being a vegitarian would require a lot of dedication, even in a centre like Inuvik. I personally knew only one guy who was sticking to his vegetarian diet. It's possible, but not much fun.
Speaking of vanilla, a family member who is a Yuma snowbird brings me back pure vanilla every year from Mexico, it is wonderful stuff.
And I hear you about ketchup Eliza, for many it is one of their servings of veggies per day. My daughter is one. Though being FN's she can keep on using it. ;)
And no movie theatres with pop corn either. :D
Thanks oldgoat
no coffee either that came from ethiopia
proly no tea either
or most spices
bush cant sniff cocaine
no tobacco either
aint sqaush too?
and bare other stuff lol
edit - w8 maysie I made the list bigger then NA n SA lol
So I've re-read the thread from the beginning and noticed that Sven started it in November 2008. Months ago. I clearly missed it on TAT the first time around.
So KeyStone has revived this thread just to post racist shite. KeyStone consider this an official warning. Don't post racist crap on babble again.
EVeryone else, please continue with the list of foods that will be no longer accessible for non-FN people. I'm enjoying that. If anyone has some recipes that would be fun too.
R-P -
Ethiopia and Asia are contiguous land masses with Europe, and were not 'discovered' by white europeans. I don't think they fit the bill.
And I'm thinking cocaine and tobacco might not fit in with this discussion, though ithey clearly are native to the americas.
But yes, most of the squashes fouind in our grocery stores have native american origins.
We can add the sweet potato, peanuts, and many edible nuts (pecans, hazelnuts, pine nuts, black walnuts, butternuts, hickory nuts).
but neither were these ways. and why would cocaine/coca leaves not fit as well as tobacco? They still plants/food.
as well as the fact that while not "discovered" (neither were the amerikkkas) there was limited contact which meant that if it wasnt for colonisation many of those things would not be in white people's regular diet.
a continous land mass can many times be a bigger barrier to travel than water. Think about mountains, desert, jungle, etc.
Ohhhh..another biggie is maple syrup, and corn syrup too, as a matter of fact.
Pesto, no more pine nuts either.