Andrea Horwath profiting from looming Hydro One sale:

After losing her bearings in the last election, Andrea Horwath has belatedly found her voice on the Hydro One privatization.

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2015/06/03/andrea-horwath-profiti...

Really interesting article - thanks for that, NR!

Peggy Nash will be joining the Ontario NDP team at Queen’s Park in the role of Senior Policy Advisor, Stakeholder Relations.

http://www.ontariondp.ca/andrea_horwath_welcomes_peggy_nash_to_ontario_n...

She'll be a great asset to the ONDP.

Hopefully Peggy can steer the ONDP to campaign on merging the Catholic and Public school boards.  There is not another socialist democratic political party in the world that would support choosing one religion over all overs for public funding.  

Re:  post #5.  It would be the left equivalent of John Tory's move that killed the election for him.  There's a historical basis for it, and otherwise no one really cares.  And doing so would be tantamount to cutting schools (irrespective of what the basis is for the schools being there.)  Schools are a fundamental part of communities.  Far better things to focus on, in my opinion.

So is racism. Communities have a lot of shit in them that needs to be flushed.

You mean, to stop supporting the Catholic Church with public funds, you have to "focus" on it to the exclusion of everything else?

Hey, I'm not here for a squabble.  You know what I mean.  Fine if you feel the presence of these schools is an important enough issue to warrant their closure.  I don't care.  I'm an atheist, and it don't bother me.  What can I say, closing schools ain't my thing.

No need to close any of them -- that's some bad optics right there -- but we could stop expecting non-Catholics to help fund them.

I get that even that would be political suicide, of course, but a boy can dream.

Make them all public and keep them all open?  From where I went to high school, there were three high schools in a very close proximity to one another -- one public school and two Catholic schools (one for the Catholic gals and another for the Catholic guys).  If they were all public suddenly I just couldn't see the case for keeping all three open.  But then again, I don't really know, since I'm no expert in education or planning or whatever.  I just figure that when there's mergers, there's closures.

Ridiculous. No closures are needed. This was debated here years ago, when Howard Hampton creeped out on this issue. The ONDP will never go anywhere unless it grows some principles. Don't expect that any time soon.

Mind you, following your "logic", Ontario should have Jewish, Muslim, and Atheist public schools, fully funded - right? Lots more schools. No closures. Openings!

How can you even think about supporting Catholic schools? Where are we anyway?

I guess my thinking was make them private, and keep them open.  There's lots of private schools, either for the faithful or the wealthy.  But only the RC schools get official recognition and support.  And it's not that I love ANY private schools, but if they have to exist, they may as well also be privately funded.

Re:  post #12.  No.  You'll notice I referenced Tory's decision to pursue this as folly.  Nope.  I don't really care.  Not an issue for me.  Again, generally if there's mergers, there's closures.  But whatever, not an issue for me.  ETA:  Re:  post #13  and prviatizing a public institution is on a parallel with a closure of a public institution IMO.

Then we're down to the nub of it.

Why should Catholic schools be publicly funded when:

a) zillions of other, non-religious schools are publicly funded and are a perfectly valid, free alternative for Catholics and anyone else?

b) no other religious schools are publicly funded, despite their equally legitimate intent?

This is really not unlike "no property tax for all Scottish Canadians".  Why should ONLY Scots get a free pass on property tax?  If there's no good answer to that then there's similarly no good answer to why ONLY Catholics should have their special Catholic schools funded by non-Catholics.  Saying that it's a good thing for them doesn't really answer why it's only for them.

My assumption is it's history.  Back when it was basically Protestants and Catholics who populated Canada, with Catholics largely in Quebec and Protestants largely in Ontario, that to preserve the rights of the few Protestants in Quebec, a deal was made where they'd get their own schools there and Catholics would get there own schools here.  It may even be in the BNA (I'm feeling lazy now so I ain't gonna check). 

I went to public elementary schools, which still had a whiff of that Protestant fervour when I was there.  During my childhood they used to start the day with the Lord's Prayer, and each year there was a day where they'd hand out litte red new testament bibles to all the kids.  I'm guessing they've dropped this stuff by now. 

It's in the Constitution Act, here.

That protected separate schools in Alberta, Saskatchewan, Ontario, and Québec. Later, Newfoundland joined confederation with the same constitutional protection.

In 1997, both Québec and Newfoundland & Labrador separately asked to amend the constitution to remove those protections. No big deal to accomplish, because the amendment only affected the province in question. The religious public school boards were immediately abolished in both provinces. Can't speak for NL, but trust me, they are not missed in Québec.

Nothing stops Ontario from doing likewise. Except political parties afraid of their own shadow who lack the only kind of faith that matters in a democracy - faith in the people.

I certainly can't just dismiss that.  In fact, I generally begin with the assumption that an agreement is an agreement.  That's how we interpret, say, FN treaties and such.

But in this case, times really have changed.  Catholics in Ontario (and Protestants in Quebec) don't really face discrimination or hardship, and so the original purpose of this agreement has been long lost, and now it's just a free perk for Ontario Catholics.

As an analogy:  I know that we weren't really thinking about employment equity back at the turn of the century, but if we did then we might well have made an effort to address the discrimination against Irish or Italian immigrants.  Think of a job ad ending with "... persons of Irish or Italian heritage are encouraged to apply.".  But fast-forward 100 years -- would it still seem reasonable to grant special consideration to Irish or Italian Canadians, as though they still cannot get a decent job?

I pretty much agree with you on most of this, but just out of curiousity, faith in the people to do (or not do) what?  My guess is that they need more faith that the electorate won't freak out and unemploy them.  And I'm not convinced that the electorate here in Ontario might not do just that.  You guys were clever:  fight religion until it's on its knees, THEN deep-six the religious schools.  I don't think there's any such push-back against religion here.  Or at any rate, I can't say confidently that I think it would be stronger then the fury of a Catholic scorned.

If Ontarians are ready to fight to the death to keep their Papal public school enclaves, then more power to them. I don't believe it for a nanosecond. But I don't care that much. Maybe, though, they should have enough democratic spirit to comprehend that other religions, and atheists, should have the same rights? Or would that get Jesus all riled up and they'd have to have some pogroms?

If QC and NL can tell the religious nutbars to fuck off, I'm pretty sure Ontario can find it within itself to do likewise. If not - I'm repeating myself - who cares?

In BC there was never a constitutionally mandated Catholic school system. However in 1977 the Socred's started funding private schools. The Liberals have not only continued the process but have enhanced the grants to the schools and passed a law making them exempt from municipal taxes. In this province we not only subsidize religious fanatics of various religions, not just Catholics, we also give money to the prep schools where the very rich send their children.  The BC NDP refuses to make this an issue.

I recall when McGuinty tried to have the recitation of the Lord's Prayer, which began each session in the Ontario Legislature, done away with.  There was a huge outcry, at which point it was changed to reciting a variety of different prayers from different religions to better reflect 'diversity' (as opposed to what it should have been, which is religion and politics don't mix and so no more prayers period).  Anyway, massive petitions and letter writing campaigns transpired to save the Lord's Prayer, at which point I think the government simply dropped its plans. 

this pisses me off. they financed to the tune of 358 million last year. can you imagine our public schools if they had the money private schools got?

It's pretty clear that most young people do not agree with funding one religion above and over any others.  It is not equitable.  Many like to think of Ontario as a progressive place.  

Ontario,  A Government that still has agencies that can legally not hire someone because of their LGBTQ2S status, will pay for Catholics to be segregated into their own, often better funded (See ETFO's stance against the Catholic system) schools, which ultimately leads to those in the Public system receiving less than their fair share.  It's a joke that in 2016, this exists in what is supposed to be a progressive, equitable, province.

It baffles me how anybody, even a Catholic, could legitimately argue, in 2016, that it is 'fair' to have one religion funded over the others.  If Andrea cannot run on a campaign based on principles as opposed to being popular, then I really don't see my place supporting her or the party.

I don't get all the supposed bafflement on the lack of the Ontario parties taking up the mantle for closing Catholic schools.  It is obvious that movement on this file will have to come from the Liberals once they are in opposition.

The big push in the PCs is to maintain, expand and grow funding for religious schools, not eliminate the existing ones so proposing eliminating the Catholic system is a lose-lose for them.  Plus, they'd get asked what they're privatizing next.

The NDP is a more natural partner, but you'll never see the them lead on this because a proposed elimination of a publicly funded school system by a left-leaning party will be interpreted as the privatization of the school system and the NDP would subsequently get creamed by the Liberals.  Plus, they'll get asked why they are adopting policies that will actively encourage kids to exit a public system for private education (which will happen.)

You'll have to wait for the Liberals to come around to this to see this implemented, as they are better suited with one foot in left and one in the right, and they won't see the light til they've had a few years in opposition and are dying for a wedge issue against the PCs.

Where the NDP could have an angle is modernizing the system to eliminate discrimination - but that would only show how they're not willing to go the full monty because of the political calculus.

This is a pretty cynical assessment, but I find nothing significant to disagree with.

The ONDP are a progressive party, who support moving toward a more equitable Ontario.  I don't see how anyone could not "get all the supposed bafflement on the lack of the Ontario parties taking up the mantle for closing Catholic schools".  It's not fair.  Even if a single dollar wasn't saved, this needs to be done.  it's a shock that in 2016 we still fund one religion.  Horwath needs to address this issue to stay relevant amount young people.  Heck, Catholic and Public school boards are even working together to get funding for High Schools and Elementary schools, which are operating in the same building. Why should we have to do this?  

I think I share Ciabatta2's cynical assessment. I'm trying to recall a single instance where an NDP government took on the religious establishment, whether in education or other social spheres. Tommy Douglas in Saskatchewan, maybe, in the implementation of medicare? Probably not even there. It's almost always been Liberals (certainly in QC with the Quiet Revolution, but elsewhere as well), in either bold or wishy-washy fashion. Like beginning the de-criminalization of abortion, or legalizing same-sex marriage... And getting rid of religious public schools in QC and NL was accomplished under PQ and the Liberals respectively.

Seriously, if there's a significant example from history I'm missing here, let me know.

I thought from this thread and others on babble that Quebec had stopped funding private schools but apparently it hasn't. According to some reports it actually has more private school students funded by the province then in almost every other jurisdiction except maybe BC.

So let me get this straight funding Catholic schools is evil but funding "private" schools is a good thing?

http://www.ourkids.net/quebec-private-schools.php

I believe in one publicly-funded school system that accommodates both the religious, whatever their preference, as well as the 'non-religious'. I don't believe in funding private schools - period, full-stop.